Have you ever got hit by the Trolls?

[Demurrersurprise]

Man,
I went looking through my CG stats and ran across a referral site sending users my way. Since I don't get much traffic at my site I was curious as to who was linking to me. It turns out it is a user of a furry site talking smack about my comic and art skills. They had a whole discussion thread of Trolls trashing my site and work. Now I have expected trolls and angry discussion picking my site apart because it is a political comic, but what they were going on about was my art and skillz. I know I ain't much of an artist compared to the big web comics, and sometimes I get lax by just doing portraits, but I was not expecting that. How do you all deal with getting trod on by the Trolls? What do you do to cheer yourself up if hit by their gooy crap?

[Dreamaniaccomic]

The average intelligence of an internet troll is far too low for you to even consider their opinion. And if you're lucky enough to get trashed by an intelligent troll, it can be good to actually read what they have to say and see if any of it is useful to you.
But really, it's best to remind yourself that the reason you are doing the comic is to please yourself first and formost. If you are satisfied with the comic, then others will come to like it. And those that don't can find some other comic to read.

[McDuffies]

Well the most important thing to do when you start displaying your work in public is to grow thick skin. Anything you make can draw any kind of reactions from people, sometimes unexpected or uncalled for. Internet, god bless it, keeps record of any such conversation so you can run into people trashing your comic years after the conversation ended.

So really the only thing you can do is get used to it, ideally to read it, consider it, pick up what's useful for you and shrug away the rest (I do less than ideally and generally ignore anyone who can't express himself politely. Can't bother to dig through tons of garbage just to find a few useful conclusions). Prolly it won't be the last time, since your comic is accessible to all sorts of people.

If it's any consolation, it might have not been personal or strictly based on your comic, but rather something like bullies throwing water balloons or something at the geek from was unlucky enough to be passing by.
Someone once suggested a trick, write a lengthy response letter to them, then instead of sending it, erase it. It helps vent out the anger.

[Demurrersurprise]

Well, thanks for the moral support. Yeah, the Troll hatred was specifically about my comic. It was directly aimed at me. It even linked back to someone who posts a comicgenesis comic. I guess I was blind sided by the harshness of it. I took a long drive home with the music blarring, and my sore spot has been upgraded to thick skin. I am doing better.

It really helped reading what you all said, especially the bit about why I do my comics (both a political and a humor one). I do them for me first and foremost. I started the political one cause I didn't want to be voicless on particular matters in the world around me, plus I like kicking politicians in the shins (all political parties) if given the chance. The humor one is because I always wanted to do one, and am a huge fan of a number of comics since the mid nineties. While there is no overal plot to the humor one (I would like to do a plot comic if I ever get time), I get to at least share the humorus little things I see in my life every now and then.

Yeah, the best thing to do is ignore a Troll. Getting in some sort of flame war with them just feeds them the bile and hatred they crave. I will keep a tougher skin in the future.

[VinnieD]

Look at it this way. In spite of everything he does to hurt your comic, you still seem to be getting new readers from his rants.

[Killbert-Robby]

Maybe since its a thread dedicated to how bad people think your comic is, rather than a flood of emails directly attacking you, there really is something to improve in your comic and rather than labeling them all trolls you should see what it is they're addressing?

[EmergencyExit]

I thought this thread was about real trolls, I am mildly disappointed.

Everyone gets bashed at some point, how useful those bashings are can depend on the people. Like the above posts says, see if there really is anything useful to gain out of it, but I say still feel free to be upset and angry it's natural but don't let it make you pass up anything beneficial. Overtime these things affect you less and less but they always will in some way. I usually find criticism from my peers more useful than random Interlol people, but even they can have some good input now and then, though generally if they can't do it civilly I don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Pimpette]

I had a random person add me on msn once while they were reading my archive to tell me how bad it was.

It was very entertaining - since I'm well aware how terrible the early P&A comics are.

[Industrialpowersart]

It's hard to deal with that kind of thing. But in this case, it could be a good thing for you. These people are trashing you, but it's possible that of all the people they're sending your way, some people might actually like what you do. It's not an ideal way for anyone to find out about you, but it's a start. Infamy is still fame.

I am not the world's greatest at taking criticism, but I take it worse from people I am trying to be friendly with. If I don't know someone, have no point of contact with them, and they appear to have nothing between their ears, it's much easier to ignore them. But, if something intelligent is said in a meanspirited way, I might actually learn from it though I wish they'd choose a different way of stating things. For me, it also depends on what precisely was said, and how closely it relates to me personally. For instance, something minorly negative was said about the physique of one of my characters and it wounded me- because her body is based on mine at her age. (You don't have to pay for models that way). I just had to remind myself that the commenter didn't KNOW that.

Meanwhile, intentional trollishness may hurt a lot less because you know they're just trying to get a rise out of you. The best thing to do is realise that they clearly have nothing better to do with their time than trash your work, since they don't actually do anything productive. They're not brave enough usually to put themselves out there the way most of us have. Remind yourself that you are.

[Warofwinds]

I personally flame trolls back. I already am well aware of all my comic's flaws. I am working fastidiously to correct them, and I don't need anyone to remind me of what I'm doing wrong. My comic is an ongoing project for which I've had no professional training, and I don't appreciate harsh comments when I haven't asked for them. Then again, I am not surprised when I get them. It is, after all, the internet, and everyone thinks their opinions count for something. I guess the trick is to not let it get under your skin and make you stop. What you don't have to do is grit your teeth, bow your head meekly, and take it when people think you should WANT their opinions when you never asked for them. Vice versa, you should never think that flamers' opinions have no merit, or that there is a point where you can stop expecting flames.

I myself prefer a compromise, and every now and then, I will ASK for a harsh critique. When I get them, they have always had a positive impact on my work.

[Paul Escobar]

Maybe since its a thread dedicated to how bad people think your comic is, rather than a flood of emails directly attacking you, there really is something to improve in your comic and rather than labeling them all trolls you should see what it is they're addressing?

What he said.

People talking about your work on their own site is not trolling. It's critique and review. A troll is someone who sends you harassing emails or posts shit on your forum if you've got one. They did not contact you, you went to their site via your referral logs.

Calling people trolls because they express a negative opinion of your work on their own site is silly. Once you publish your work, you have put yourself up for criticism, good and bad, fair and unfair.

[Wendybird]

I'm curious. Do you think your comics are wonderful and ready for public consumption? If so, you should link to them here! This is where we get lots of our awesome publicity! Everyone's curious now.

If you're still working to improve your skills - well, I find it easier to ignore criticism when I know I'm working to improve. I also find an assessment from the polite people on this forum reassuring, useful, and easier to take in.

OK, maybe I'm still just trying to get you to show us your comics. Do whatever you want.

[Demurrersurprise]

Ok, lets see, a number of things to respond to at this point.

The political comic I am tinkering with is Demurrer Surprise. Of the last few months, it is part comic, part comment posting below to counter point the comic. I really should get back to scene type stuff where more of the concepts are in the comic.

Do I think my art could be improved? Oh yeah. First off I have been sticking with this heavy thick marker I got, and haven't gotten my self to move to a thin sharpy as I have with my humor comic. That alone removes quite a bit of precision. Secondly of late I have just pretty much been doing portrait kind of images with cut phrases (I did more complex about a year ago), that give me time drawing and painting, but as I work a 40+ hour week, this gives my worn out brain time to relax. It also lets me write some ideas down here and there, not that everyone will agree with them. I will take that away from this that I should consider trying to push the envelope more, and improve my artistic style.

As for the political comic, I had stopped doing it for awhile, not because I was lazy, but because I was worried it my cause me problems with my job. I was talked into starting it up again, and I was slowly getting back into drawing the comic. I figured any art and creativity was better than none. I guess that is why the comments took me by surprise. My defenses weren't back up yet, which they are now.

As to why I thought they were trolls? True, they haven't as of yet posted to my site, but it was comments mixed with cuss words and insults ranging from racial to that suggesting the artist had different medical disabilities. I just consider that a bunch of Trolls.

Thanks for listening to me grumble and providing some positive advice.

[Killbert-Robby]

This is the internet. Racial belittlement and questioning of mental ability isn't a sign of a troll. Its a by-product of anonymity which allows people to word things harsher than they usually would. Once it turns into personal attacks rather than bitching behind your back, thats when they're promoted to troll status. For now they're just voicing opinions and suffering from e-nads.

[McDuffies]

People talking about your work on their own site is not trolling. It's critique and review. A troll is someone who sends you harassing emails or posts shit on your forum if you've got one. They did not contact you, you went to their site via your referral logs.

Calling people trolls because they express a negative opinion of your work on their own site is silly. Once you publish your work, you have put yourself up for criticism, good and bad, fair and unfair.

I disagree. For me trolling is all about the way in which something is told. If someone is phrasing things in a way that is intented to be insulting and personal attack, then whether they'll bother to contact you is just a detail. After all, forums aren't private conversations like chat, they're publicly open conversations.

Personally, I stand behind the idea that if someone can't bring himself to talk civil, he shouldn't be taken seriously. It's internet, everyone is talking, and in this white noise of voices, discourse that is used is the only way to discern people who have something worthwhile to say from those who just like to see their words on screen.

And from a personal standpoint, if someone insults me, noone has right to expect me to return back to those insults and to try to think about them, when what I'd like is to forget them as quick as I can. It's like when bullies harras you because you wear glesses, and someone expects you to turn to them and say "hah, you're right, these glasses really do make me look funny!"

(Not that I've never trolled and trashed CAD or Dominic Deegan around. But I don't fool myself that I'm doing that for the benefit of it's artists, I'm doing it strictly for my own amusement. When I'm adressing the artist with intention to help him somehow, I use different language.)

[Killbert-Robby]

But these arent bullies. Bullies confront you. They go "YOU SUCK".
These people were in their own forums talking amongst themselves and probably never expected this guy to come along. It's more like walking past some people and you hear a little snippet of conversation, "I don't know why John doesn't treat Susan better, fucking retard is gonna lose her". And then you can think "Bah, screw them" or you can think "Hrm, am I that bad? I better look into that".

[Paul Escobar]

It's hard to properly discuss something we haven't read. Please give us a link to the alleged troll thread.

For me trolling is all about the way in which something is told. If someone is phrasing things in a way that is intented to be insulting and personal attack, then whether they'll bother to contact you is just a detail. After all, forums aren't private conversations like chat, they're publicly open conversations.

Nothing is a personal attack unless you are in fact receiving it. A troll confronts a victim with the purpose of getting a reaction. These people did not. Conversing on the internet is a bit like conversing on a bus - other people can hear it, but it's not directed at them. The conversation is to all intents and purposes private.

[McDuffies]

It's hard to properly discuss something we haven't read. Please give us a link to the alleged troll thread.

Sure. I'm mostly speaking hypothetically. Demurrersurprise might have gotten a rightful critique and interpreted it as something horrible.

Nothing is a personal attack unless you are in fact receiving it. A troll confronts a victim with the purpose of getting a reaction. These people did not.

Something is a personal attack if, instead of the comic, you are discussing comic's author. For instance, when instead of "this comic sucks" you say "this comic must be made by an idiot". Similarly, there is a kind of conversation which is not based (or is only vaguely based) on qualities of the comic, but rather a sort of game in which the next one has to top the insult of the previous one or at least join the crowd.
Call it trolling or flaming or proverbial whacking off or eating candies, but semantic matters aside it's not a kind of conversation where one is supposed to look for lesson or advice.
Other issue is that I don't expect insight or perceptiveness from a person who can't express himself in a civil manner.
I don't like the idea of suggesting to a guy to dig through tons of trash in unlikely hope that he'll find a diamond.

Conversing on the internet is a bit like conversing on a bus - other people can hear it, but it's not directed at them.

It is a bit like conversing on a bas, while you're within the ear's reach of a person you're discussing about and you don't give a heck whether he'll hear you or not.

The conversation is to all intents and purposes private.

Victims of employers who fire employees based on their writings on internet and of stalkers who dig out minors on facebook will tend to disagree. I think that sooner or later, we all have to go through a painful lesson that conversations, much like any data you put on internet is in fact not private.

[Paul Escobar]

Something is a personal attack if, instead of the comic, you are discussing comic's author. For instance, when instead of "this comic sucks" you say "this comic must be made by an idiot".

In strictly semantic terms, sure, but it was trolling that was the issue. And the definition of trolling is direct contact designed to draw an indignant response.

Other issue is that I don't expect insight or perceptiveness from a person who can't express himself in a civil manner.

That's your loss. Comedians such as Lenny Bruce and Bill Hicks who had very valid and insightful observations about society were consistently rude as fuck. Swearing your tits off can be a form of humour.

Conversing on the internet is a bit like conversing on a bus - other people can hear it, but it's not directed at them.

It is a bit like conversing on a bas, while you're within the ear's reach of a person you're discussing about and you don't give a heck whether he'll hear you or not.

Not really. Bad comparison on my part from the start, I suppose. A bus is a relatively small place, while there's a bazillion sites on the internet; that someone being the subject of a conversation on one of them should drop by is generally not very likely.

The conversation is to all intents and purposes private.

Victims of employers who fire employees based on their writings on internet and of stalkers who dig out minors on facebook will tend to disagree.

Dissing someone's webcomic is hardly comparable to employers firing people and pedophiles picking up kids.

[Pimpette]

But these arent bullies. Bullies confront you. They go "YOU SUCK".

Or they talk about you behind your back simply for their own amusement... and then the talk gets around and in extreme cases pretty soon everybody hates you and nobody can remember why.


If I found a group of people hanging out in the backwaters of the internet discussing how much my comic sucks... well personally i'd just be like "wtf these people read my comic?"
But I wouldn't take it badly. If they're being asshats about it and just out to amuse themselves with their vision of BAD COMICS (as I have totally never ever done before obviously), simply stop reading. If you want to wade through the language and the "ha ha my e-peen is bigger than yours," knock yourself out. But sticking to more constructive reviews/critiques is a better idea.

Er, in short... ignore the bashers and go on with your life.
It's the internet.