Good places to find great manga?

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Bustertheclown
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Post by Bustertheclown »

Mercury Hat wrote:I think there's starting to be more blending of styles rather than outright imitation. I've always preferred the cartoony realistic look, so it's a happy compromise for me.

And I think the start of the manga explosion and JTHM's popularity were around the same time, mid 90s. It used to be teen girls pretty much only drew in one of those two styles. It's getting better these days, but a great deal of webcomics are still made by new artists who are still finding their own way of doing things and haven't really branched out to experiment yet.
Yeah, the whole stylistic amalgamation thing was pretty inevitable, I think.

As for the time line of JTHM vs. manga, now that I think of it, they did run into each other for a few years. Still, the Vasquez style seemed to have a larger impact on people where I come from at least three or four years before Japanese media really hit the pop scene.
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Post by The Neko »

Back in high school there was one kid who combined the Jhonen style with Akira Toriyama. It was a recipe for derivative suck if I ever saw one. Image It also didn't help that he wasn't very good at illustrating to begin with.

Luckily, the art teachers there really put a huge kibosh on people trying to do anime/manga characters and drawings in class or as submitted work. So they were able to work in at least a little classical training with basic things like 1, 2, and 3-point perspective and contour. Unfortunately, I heard that both of them have retired, and the funding has gone to the sports department, so it's probably crud-central now.

I've been hearing about portfolio review/admissions experiences from people who were applying to places like the Pratt Institute, etc. where the interviewer, in all seriousness, asked them if they draw anime/manga. And when they said "no" the admissions counselor sat back down with a sigh of relief, saying "oh thank god", and opened the portfolio to begin.

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Post by Bustertheclown »

The Neko wrote:I've been hearing about portfolio review/admissions experiences from people who were applying to places like the Pratt Institute, etc. where the interviewer, in all seriousness, asked them if they draw anime/manga. And when they said "no" the admissions counselor sat back down with a sigh of relief, saying "oh thank god", and opened the portfolio to begin.
I don't doubt that. The style has become really quite pervasive amongst teenagers over the last half-decade. I actually kinda feel sorry for kids who use it as a jumping-off point, because at this point there's almost a stigma attached to it. Of course, I'm not going to hold it against most of these kids, either, because if they're going to go to art school, at some point they're going to change. That's the nature of art school. If the schooling is doing its job, and you're paying attention, then it breaks you down, and fills your head with knowledge, and then builds you into someone with greater artistic merit by allowing you to find your own vision and style. It happens to everyone who's serious about their work.
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McDuffies
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Post by McDuffies »

They tend to label mangaish comics that aren't made in Japan a "manga influenced". I guess that relieves some stress from people who just like the style.
Still it's kind of annoying when the story happens in Tokyo but all architectire and enviroment (not to mention characters) look perfectly American. You don't really bring any Japan to us if all you do is rename your characters Japanese and use random catchphrases from Japanese language.
I don't mind when people set their stories in Japan, if they do some actual research before that - and I don't mean reading other manga comics.

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Post by Mysticela »

Luckily, the art teachers there really put a huge kibosh on people trying to do anime/manga characters and drawings in class or as submitted work. So they were able to work in at least a little classical training with basic things like 1, 2, and 3-point perspective and contour. Unfortunately, I heard that both of them have retired, and the funding has gone to the sports department, so it's probably crud-central now.

I've been hearing about portfolio review/admissions experiences from people who were applying to places like the Pratt Institute, etc. where the interviewer, in all seriousness, asked them if they draw anime/manga. And when they said "no" the admissions counselor sat back down with a sigh of relief, saying "oh thank god", and opened the portfolio to begin.

LOL! That's REALLY funny you say that, because last time I checked I was accepted into The School of the Art Institute Of Chicago BECAUSE of my manga/anime work. They said they LOVED it and it was a breath of fresh air from traditional artwork... It is far more of a legitimate art than you think! ^_^

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Post by Adobedragon »

Speaking of manga, <a href="http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/maga ... 1/ff_manga" target="_blank">Wired magazine had a couple of articles about manga</a> (an anime) in a recent issue.

The crux of the main article was how manga was on the decline in Japan and how the Japanese manga industry was taking a rather unique approach to copyright infringement. I.e., in recent years there has been a proliferation of amateur [print] comics based on characters and settings from established manga, e.g., Full Metal Alchemist. Even though this is a form of copyright infringement and the creators are making money off the venture, the publishers are turning a blind eye to the practice.

<a href="http://www.wired.com/special_multimedia ... 1_ff_manga" target="_blank">Another article</a> looks at manga's influence on the comic and publishing industry worldwide.
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Post by Fabio Ciccone »

Japan.


Oh, you meant GOOD manga? So the accurate answer should be "nowhere"




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Post by Swimmingtrunks »

mysticela wrote:LOL! That's REALLY funny you say that, because last time I checked I was accepted into The School of the Art Institute Of Chicago BECAUSE of my manga/anime work. They said they LOVED it and it was a breath of fresh air from traditional artwork... It is far more of a legitimate art than you think! ^_^
As a fellow Chicago-area art student... I cannot comprehend this statement. That they would go out of their way to tell you it's a breath of fresh air when hundreds of kids who are doing your thing are going to Columbia, just down the road- Then again, I never seriously looked into the Art Institute when I applied places. So... good for you, I guess. I hope you make good use of all the influences around you.

On the more relevant off-topic discussion, I have nothing against american-made "manga," though it certainly isn't my cup of tea. However, I can't help but feel that those who truly know what they're doing with the manga influence will come to some form of their own style. I don't know. I'm among academic minds that have conditioned me to cringe when I see straight manga/anime style- personally, I prefer that to my high school art teacher who thought a painting of Piccolo was pretty damn cool.

As for where to FIND it, yeah, I'd check the genre sections of the major webcomic listing sites. And try checking out the link sections of your favorite comics. Unless the author is sort of eclectic in taste, I'm sure you'll find some other comics along the same lines.
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Post by The Neko »

mcDuffies wrote:They tend to label mangaish comics that aren't made in Japan a "manga influenced". I guess that relieves some stress from people who just like the style.
Still it's kind of annoying when the story happens in Tokyo but all architectire and enviroment (not to mention characters) look perfectly American. You don't really bring any Japan to us if all you do is rename your characters Japanese and use random catchphrases from Japanese language.
I don't mind when people set their stories in Japan, if they do some actual research before that - and I don't mean reading other manga comics.
I always find that really irritating. If they're going to take the effort to have it set in a very specific location with a very specific culture, they should probably try to get it in the ballpark. But instead they just copy what they see. That's the issue I have, most of what I see from these people are just carbon copies of ideas, themes, and designs.
mysticela wrote: LOL! That's REALLY funny you say that, because last time I checked I was accepted into The School of the Art Institute Of Chicago BECAUSE of my manga/anime work. They said they LOVED it and it was a breath of fresh air from traditional artwork...
Good for yeeewwwwww.
bustertheclown wrote: Of course, I'm not going to hold it against most of these kids, either, because if they're going to go to art school, at some point they're going to change. That's the nature of art school. If the schooling is doing its job, and you're paying attention, then it breaks you down, and fills your head with knowledge, and then builds you into someone with greater artistic merit by allowing you to find your own vision and style. It happens to everyone who's serious about their work.
True. The problem is that a lot of them have use the style as a crutch and neglected any of the concepts and techniques behind the style. They sorta just slap what they think are Japanese stylizations on top of faulty anatomy and line work. In the end it looks amateurish, "manga" or not. It's the same if someone tries to use American comic book affectations, really. A lot of people who want to be cartoonists underestimate the importance of understanding figure, form, etc. and their work usually reflects that in all the worst possible ways.

There is some really awesome stuff that comes out of Japan, but I almost never see any of that ingenuity and graphical power reflected in the "manga" produced in America. It used to be my freakin' JOB to evaluate them for acquisitions. So when I've had to previously decide between professionally published A versus professionally published B, and now confronted with WTF Teenage Scribblings with Screentones and Anime Hair Webcomikku, it just makes my brain snap. Mostly because it's like they can't tell the difference between the good and the bad.

Plus, I've found that the manga imitators are the worst when it comes to the "it's my styyyylllllleeee" excuse.

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Post by McDuffies »

swimmingtrunks wrote:
mysticela wrote:LOL! That's REALLY funny you say that, because last time I checked I was accepted into The School of the Art Institute Of Chicago BECAUSE of my manga/anime work. They said they LOVED it and it was a breath of fresh air from traditional artwork... It is far more of a legitimate art than you think! ^_^
As a fellow Chicago-area art student... I cannot comprehend this statement. That they would go out of their way to tell you it's a breath of fresh air when hundreds of kids who are doing your thing are going to Columbia, just down the road- Then again, I never seriously looked into the Art Institute when I applied places. So... good for you, I guess. I hope you make good use of all the influences around you.
They're probably getting hundreds of manga-ish submissions every year. I find it hard to believe that anyone will consider manga 'a breath of fresh air' nowadays. :-?
From what I know about art academies, they aren't very appreciative of any comic-school-specific stylisations, and for trendy ones like manga, that goes double. They'll want to build you into a serious artist, and only then when you have full knowledge of the matter find your 'voice'. For most of self-thought artists (me included), process is reversed: first we cling on some critches and some idols, and only then we slowly start learning the craft. One teacher once told me that he preferes students who are just starting to draw. Because it's easier to teach someone who isn't very opinionated about what he wants to draw and what is his 'style'. Mostly, they'll try to make you un-learn your style like primary school teachers teach left-handed pupils to draw with righ hand.
I can't help but feel that those who truly know what they're doing with the manga influence will come to some form of their own style. I don't know.
One of top reasons people who hate manga name is that all styles look the same and they can't distinguish artists one from other. Though it is an overstatement, it does seem to me that rules applied to maga art are more strict than for other comic schools and for that reason it must be more difficult for an artist to find a really distinguishable style.
Yeah, unfortunately, many beginners mix 'style' with 'gimmick'. Like, draw all character's eyes in certain way, and it's suddenly 'a style'.

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Post by Cuendolin »

I like reading some points brought up in this topic. I think, at the end, is a matter of doing the things right in the style you choose.
I don't know much about manga but another recommendation:
http://shifters.comicgen.com/
I think some chapters are worth reading.
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Post by Robin Pierce »

Just as a warning because i can see the potential of this going all over the place and deteriorating into personal insults --- keep it civil people. There's nothing wrong with a bit of debate, just keep it on the tracks please.
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Post by Derenge »

Oddly I find I don't regularly read any online comics that would refer to themselves as manga. Not deliberately mind you, but a great deal of what calls itself "manga" is often bad in all ways that a comic can be bad. Having said that I can make some suggestions of good story driven comics. Some of which even have manga influences without being slavishly dedicated to the thing.

http://www.gunnerkrigg.com
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
http://zebragirl.keenspot.com/
http://aquartzbead.net/quartz/index2.php

Interestingly my current art history class this year is in japanese printmaking and one of the readings we've had this semester was that wired article mentioned earlier.

Also hegemony is a great word that should be used more. I also like usurper.

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McDuffies
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Post by McDuffies »

I was walking down the usurper when I heard music playing from the nearest hegemony.

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I assert the hegemony of cromulence.

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How cromulent!
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Post by Derenge »

hegemony would be a good band name. Very embiggening.

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McDuffies
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Post by McDuffies »

Usurper wouldn't be a bad band name either. Only they both sound kind of soft-metal-ish.

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Post by Phact0rri »

I use the term Ameri-manga... even if its european or what anywhere else.

but I do like that the publishers are not calling all asian comics Manga these days.

As to style... I would rather see a mixture than an outright imitation. I don't even care if its as good as the real thing. when I see the same "style" of art for to long it bores me.
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Post by K-Dawg »

Derenge wrote:hegemony would be a good band name. Very embiggening.
Pfft, hegemony as a name for a band? I find that highly dubious.
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Post by McDuffies »

Highly Dubious!!!

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