How do you write villains?

Fabio Ciccone · Post by **Fabio Ciccone** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:46 am

jekkal wrote:I have several different 'ranges' of villains, and a lot of this is because a lot of the characters oppose each other in various ways:
The self-righteous prick who would be the good guy (and hell, is a bit of a celebrity hero already) but has his own selfish reasons for targeting one particular villain (an old woman) for special punishment out of some patriotic vengeance,
The psychopathic artist who seeks to preserve the beauty he sees 'for all time' by turning his victims into stone, killing them in the process but preserving their bodies,
The 'blessed' angel who finds it his duty to drive out 'demonic influences' in the world by killing those who gain powers which counter his own...
Because there's never just ONE guy who's ruining your day, it's a whole host of people who could have their own agenda against you, for their own reasons...

The more, the better.

Sincerely · Post by **Sincerely** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:21 pm

Writing villains is really, really haaaaard.

All of my characters keep wanting to get along no matter how mean or morally deprived I make some of them. No matter how many times I have one of them make another one of them cry, they still end up bein' all "let us sit down over a cup of coffee and discuss the nature of tears and yellin' and stuff."

Escushion · Post by **Escushion** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:21 am

I like how casual your characters are, Sincerely. It's very effective in making things feel less like they're on display for the reader and more like the reader is peaking in on things.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:49 am

ArcoJawa wrote:(Long thread, I think I'm content to respond to the first post)

OUTRAGEOUS! We don't reply to threads until we've read entirely through them, mister! Each time!

BrownEyedCat · Post by **BrownEyedCat** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:31 pm

I know what you mean, Sin. I'm having difficulty with a potential side project because it involves several antagonistic characters and every time I try to develop them I just end up normalizing them. They need to be fearsome, dammit!

My main comic deals so solidly in cheap fantasy stereotypes and parody that all I do is start there and wander around. I also use the tried and true 'what my motives would be if I snapped one day' method for backstory.

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:47 am

Villains aren't necessarily like other people. They don't have to be bound by the same sense of moral disgust that animates us. Most of us feel an instictive revulsion at something as vicious as say, rape. Most of us have also nutured that feeling to the point that, for the most part, harming a fellow member of our society just feels wrong. A villain understands that. He/she probably immiates the reaction to fit in. But they aren't actually bothered by it. When no one is watching or there's no foreseeable consequences, they're free to act as they see fit in ways that will horrify your audience.

Kirb · Post by **Kirb** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:52 am

The best villains are only misunderstood.

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:07 am

I always have to give my bad guys some sort of moral code... it just may not be the same moral code as anyone else. I'm a fan of the "honorable" villain, for example... who will do what he must to reach his goals, but will never deceive or lie about it. It's true that there are psychopaths out there, who hav NO moral standards whatsoever... but I can't understand them, so I don't write them.

Dr Legostar · Post by **Dr Legostar** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:51 am

the thing you have to understand is that in their own minds most people believe they're doing the right thing, according to their own morality and ethics, they are completely correct. Real people are rarely evil for the sake of evil, they're either mentally disturbed or they honestly and truly think that what they're doing, no matter how horrible or who it hurts, that it's for "the greater good." And sometimes they're both mentally disturbed and think they're doing good.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:10 am

The key for me is that while a villian is a villian, they are also a person. Villians seem cliche' when they only do villainy. Nobody can be evil every moment of the day, and most villians don't think of themselves as genuinely evil people. They don't go "Wah-HAH! Today I will kick a puppy and peel the skin off the child of my arch nemesis!"

They go "Dammit, I have to do the laundry again, I'm out of underwear - I wonder if this pair smells too much to reuse." Same as everyone else at some point or another. Then, they may go to the laundramat, get gyped by the machine, go over-angry, and break some kid's neck for begging his mom for quarters for the umpteenth time. While the kid's gasping for breath like a fish out of water, THAT may give them the idea for how to kill their arch nemesis' child, and give them a funny story to boot (well, -they- laughed...)

The worst pedophiles can have perfectly normal hobbies. The most insane maniacs can enjoy a good turkey and cheese sandwich. Murders and rapists don't always live in squalid apartments, and sometims they kick back and watch Star Wars while ordering a pizza.

It's the little normal things that make a reader go "gaaah - I identify with that. This is so fucking disturbing!" and that reaction, imho, describes a good villian.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:30 am

It's less that they think they're right and moral so much as they feel entitled. Beat up a homeless man, steal your neighbor's paper, sleep with your boss's wife, you don't think you're doing what's right. But you justify it some way, and maybe you don't think twice or maybe you struggle with the guilt hourly. But this is the source of evil, if that word is even valid: Vanity and selfishness, where your concerns become monuments and other people's become dust.

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:04 am

Yeahduff's on the money, I think.

I kinda feel like the villain for the greater good thing is a little overplayed. Not that I don't feel instinctively nervous about anyone who sits in an office and thinks of ways to do more good all day, though.

Escushion · Post by **Escushion** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:44 am

Rkolter and yeahduff nailed it.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:10 am

Personally, I don't restrain myself to any particular type of villain, tho' there are certain traits that I do prefer. Highly intelligent, completely ruthless, and slightly sardonic. I dig the Lawful Evil type particularly. And I really like adding a mental twist of some sort, some broken part of their psychology or philosophy that drives them to do as they do.

Drugsmugglingcartoonist · Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:53 am

The villian must see himself as a good guy and believe he's doing right.

That's all I have but I think it's a good approach.