The Zuda Contracts.

[Shishio]

http://www.dccomics.com/sites/zuda/?action=the_deal

[Bustertheclown]

Cool.

[Guardsman]

I took a long hard look at that promo site, and frankly I’ll stay indie. Looking at all the licensing junk, it really gives me a head ache. Personally I wish there was an abbreviated version of that law-jargen.

Regardless I wouldn’t mind being paid for my web comic, straight up cash and a real job for some thing I do as a hobby. Who knows how it will turn out, and after all its DC, and I like them.

I wonder if marvel will do some thing similar?

[Dotty]

I like my rights, DC can't have em!

If they'd even want em.

[Noise Monkey]

The whole thing still sounds kinda shady. But that might be because I've always been more of a Marvel guy and they've brainwashed me against DC.


Also, Guardsman...I mentioned it before, but your banner is still nearly unreadable. The red is still too dark.

[Guardsman]

I find my self leaning towards DC more than Marvel, mainly because I've gotten sick of Marvels heroes. My favs DC side are Flash and Bats, but thats just because I grew up on them.

Regardless of sides, and such, that zuda project seams like an attempt to simply get a "slice of the web comic pie" as it were. Who knows though, I'll with hold final judgment until the site goes live.

Oh and I'm using a samsung LCD monitor, its very bright so I can see my own banner. I know, that dose not help people with crappy CRTs, but the colors look right on this monitor so I don't want to change it. I'll take another look at the banner soon though, see if I cant change it up a bit. Five months with on banner is a bit dull no?

Hugs to very one.

[Noise Monkey]

I'm also on a LCD, which is probably why I can now tell that it has words, whereas before I could not. Even still, it causes eyestrain.

[Shishio]

Marvel sucks, the only good stuff DC puts out is their Vertigo line.

[Corgan_dane]

I guess we'll just have to not click on it.

Isn't that what a banner is for, keeping people from clicking it?

[Noise Monkey]

Marvel sucks, the only good stuff DC puts out is their Vertigo line.

but...but....Spider-Man!

[Phact0rri]

I think that there are to many limitations right now. I'd do something new that would be disposable for them... but that eight screen thing... bleck.

[Shishio]

but...but....Spider-Man!

Spiderman is a great character, but unfortunately, the writers of his various escapades don't give a fuck about doing him justice with well written stories, or Marvel's editors refuse to let the books be written well.

And OK... 1602 wasn't bad.

[Bustertheclown]

The way I see it, eight screens is really no different from the standard 5-10 page treatment that most publishers ask for. I've got a few things brewing, and eight pages each isn't really much to ask, given that I have pretty unlimited time to get eight pages of something together and looking real good before submitting it. Honestly, I feel like this could be a very good opportunity for me, personally. $250 a week is about what I'm making in my current job, and I would find drawing a single comic page in a week much more enjoyable and freeing than working full-time in a warehouse.

As far as the whole "shady" concern goes, it strikes me that that's more a symptom of the dubious nature of the internet at large which makes people leery. If this wasn't an "online" venture, I doubt people would keep voicing their fears so much. After all, the people at Zuda have gone well out of their way to explain their vision, and assuage people's concerns. Just going so far as to post the standard contracts they will use is pretty unheard of, if you think about it. Sure, there's always a lot of "submission" contracts that float around the internet, but the working contracts, used for the chosen few who actually become regular content providers, posted publicly for all to view, complete with a very helpful question and answer session, even before the live date of the site is announced? That's really above and beyond.

By way of comparison, I checked the submission pages to every major independent comic company I could think of which have or have had open submission policies; Dark Horse, Image, Heavy Metal, Humanoids, Antarctic Press, TOKYOPOP, Top Shelf, Fantagraphics, and Slave Labor Graphics. None of them even mentions a contract, let alone posts a standard contract publicly for all to peruse and pick apart. Since the act of submitting your work to Zuda does not mean it will be published, I really can't see where their scheme is really much different from any other publishing scheme, except, of course, Zuda is publishing the content online, and not primarily in print.

So, really, I have to ask myself, "Is this backlash because Zuda is an online venture? Can people just not believe that there's an entity out there that wants to pay people to produce quality online content?"

Frankly, I'm a lot more suspicious of about 99.99% of "looking for cartoonists" offers I see floating around the 'net, since they tend to be made by individuals or fly-by-night companies who throw around the line "we can't pay you in money, per se, but we're quite willing to pay you in the hope for profit sharing in the unforeseen future" like it's the most enticing dish ever cooked.

At least Zuda has put its money where its mouth is. At least this venture has the corporate backing and the developed business model to be able to come forward with a concrete page rate, as well as real numbers for both licensing fees (and limitations) and royalty percentages. To me, it's a sad fact of the internet's dark quality that a project like Zuda has to even make with those numbers to quell the uproar, and even after they have made with the numbers, people are still looking for excuses to hate it. To me, for a model finally appearing which actually seems to pay creators a rate that makes it worth it for them to go full time creating online comics really means there's going to be some quality on that site.

I'm looking forward to it, as both a reader and a creator, and these contracts have only solidified my stance. But, hell, I could be wrong.

[McDuffies]

Regardless of sides, and such, that zuda project seams like an attempt to simply get a "slice of the web comic pie" as it were.

That pie is rather thin right now, if they're hoping to make it worthwhile, they'll have to try to make webcomics bring actual money, cause currently they don't.
But webcomics are inevitability, if they don't go into this market, someone else will. They son't have much choice, except maybe pretending that nothing's happening and hoping that current state will somehow miraculously remain, like record companies are doing.
It's not easy, being a big company in these liberal times.

[Shishio]

So, really, I have to ask myself, "Is this backlash because Zuda is an online venture? Can people just not believe that there's an entity out there that wants to pay people to produce quality online content?"

I don't think anyone is doubting Zuda's willingness to pay creators, the concern people have is that DC will take advantage of them, and certainly, the publisher/creators relationship is far better than it was in years past, but the fact remains is that DC got where it is today by exploiting creators, so the concern is valid.

I was reading this today, and given pause by this:

You acknowledge that Zuda has no obligation to You for Zuda’s use of material that was created by or for Zuda without the benefit of the Submission, before, during or after You submitted the Submission, and that is similar or identical to the Submission in theme, characters, ideas, plots storylines, formats or other similar respects. In addition, Zuda shall have no fewer rights with respect to the Submission than any member of the general public. (emphasis mine)

That second sentence is just ass-covering, but do look at the first one. By my reading, it says that Zuda can create additional work that is “similar or identical” to your entry at any time and they don’t owe you anything.

In one reading, this could be interpreted as, “Well, we once ran a story that was about an ice-cream scooper with amazing freeze powers who fights crime, so you can’t submit something similar and claim we ripped you off.”

On the other hand, it could be read as, “You submitted a story about an ice-cream scooper with amazing freeze powers who fights crime, and after we rejected you we created a new character who’s an ice-cream scooper with amazing freeze powers who fights crime, and it’s become the biggest thing since Siegel and Schuster signed away Superman, which by the way is a situation you should be very familiar with on account of it’s what you just did, Sparky.”

Let’s put it in bold — by my I Am Not A Lawyer, plain-English reading, this is the paragraph that explicitly identifies Zuda as an idea-farming mechanism and win or lose, you just gave up your story idea for ever and ever, Amen.

I'll admit that Gary is being very cynical, but cynicism is not necessarily unwarranted, here.

I also doubt they're looking for quality material. What they're looking for is mass appeal ideas they can license the shit out of and make tonnes of money from. Sadly, popularity is not related to quality. There are popular stories of very high quality, but there are also popular stories that are utter, utter shite.

[Rkolter]

I'm also on a LCD, which is probably why I can now tell that it has words, whereas before I could not. Even still, it causes eyestrain.

I'm on a digital LCD and I can barely read Guardsman's banner either. Guess I won't check out the site.

[Guardsman]

I agree with the general sentiment that this looks fishy. Personally I’m never going to bring Hegemonia to a place like that. I MAY choose to shoot off some thing like a quick story, just to get it up there and grab some cash, but I’m not about to send my pride and joy off to die.

Sounds a little stuck up of me, but from what I’ve seen it has some bad corporate mojo going on. Plus I’ve invested a good two years on thinking about my story, sure it’s initial delivery is not fantastic but that’s because I’m not a writer. If I fall anywhere I’m a concept designer, who taught himself how to draw.

Regardless, I think its time for me to look into copywriting my characters. That may be an extreme, but personally I don’t want all my hard work to go to waste.

[NakedElf]

Regardless, I think its time for me to look into copywriting my characters. That may be an extreme, but personally I don’t want all my hard work to go to waste.

From a technical perspective, copyright is automatic. Anything you create which falls under copyright law is automatically copyrighted.

Actually *registering* your copyrights is another matter. If I recall correctly, that takes time and money, but is only really necessary if you're anticipating a lawsuit.


And frankly, if DC did decide to 'steal' one of your characters, chances are good you'd be fucked no matter what. Unless you have several million dollars to blow, their lawyers are bigger than your lawyers.

[Stinkywigfiddle]

I like the idea of making money for drawing comics....
But all that contract stuff is intimidating.
I could try it with something new made just for it, I suppose.
This requires more thought and research.

[Bustertheclown]

So, really, I have to ask myself, "Is this backlash because Zuda is an online venture? Can people just not believe that there's an entity out there that wants to pay people to produce quality online content?"

I don't think anyone is doubting Zuda's willingness to pay creators, the concern people have is that DC will take advantage of them, and certainly, the publisher/creators relationship is far better than it was in years past, but the fact remains is that DC got where it is today by exploiting creators, so the concern is valid.

I was reading this today, and given pause by this:

You acknowledge that Zuda has no obligation to You for Zuda’s use of material that was created by or for Zuda without the benefit of the Submission, before, during or after You submitted the Submission, and that is similar or identical to the Submission in theme, characters, ideas, plots storylines, formats or other similar respects. In addition, Zuda shall have no fewer rights with respect to the Submission than any member of the general public. (emphasis mine)

That second sentence is just ass-covering, but do look at the first one. By my reading, it says that Zuda can create additional work that is “similar or identical” to your entry at any time and they don’t owe you anything.

In one reading, this could be interpreted as, “Well, we once ran a story that was about an ice-cream scooper with amazing freeze powers who fights crime, so you can’t submit something similar and claim we ripped you off.”

On the other hand, it could be read as, “You submitted a story about an ice-cream scooper with amazing freeze powers who fights crime, and after we rejected you we created a new character who’s an ice-cream scooper with amazing freeze powers who fights crime, and it’s become the biggest thing since Siegel and Schuster signed away Superman, which by the way is a situation you should be very familiar with on account of it’s what you just did, Sparky.”

Let’s put it in bold — by my I Am Not A Lawyer, plain-English reading, this is the paragraph that explicitly identifies Zuda as an idea-farming mechanism and win or lose, you just gave up your story idea for ever and ever, Amen.

I'll admit that Gary is being very cynical, but cynicism is not necessarily unwarranted, here.

I also doubt they're looking for quality material. What they're looking for is mass appeal ideas they can license the shit out of and make tonnes of money from. Sadly, popularity is not related to quality. There are popular stories of very high quality, but there are also popular stories that are utter, utter shite.

And here is Ron Perazza's response to Gary's assertion:

...another good point from Gary over at Fleen but I think the concern needs to be tempered a bit. You're right in that his presentation is a bit...dramatic. Let me clarify as bluntly as I can: It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever from a business position to steal ideas - that sort of behavior would pretty much shut our business down and burn any bridges that any of us personally had in this industry. This is actually pretty standard contract language that protects us in a lot of the very possible scenarios that might come up based on our process and our medium. Realistically speaking, we work with LOTS of creators who have LOTS of great ideas, all working independent of each other. For example, lets say Person A submits Story A and it wins the competition. A year later, Person B submits Story B and coincidentally Person A had turned in a script for his ongoing comic that is amazingly similar. There is no actual plagiarism or anything, it was just a good idea that two people had independent of each other and not something Zuda passed to Person A. Or, for example, Person C submits a story about Superman - despite the fact that this site has nothing whatsoever to do with Superman - and then, two years later, something similar happens in Superman. This is standard protection stuff for us and not some sneaky license to steal ideas.

It is standard IP contract language, by the way. Mr. Perazza is not trying to trick us. There are actually cases of independent similarities which pop up from time to time, and must be solved legally. U.S. intellectual property law addresses such instances, and, when dealing with intellectual property contracts, it is standard procedure to include policy for that eventuality.

I think it's fair, also, to point out that, yes, while creators will be dealing with an operation running under the corporate umbrella of DC and WB, they'll still also be dealing real, actual people. Like Mr Perazza stated, these people have reputations and business relations to maintain, something that is often hard to do after one is labeled a "thief" or a "liar".

Regardless, I think its time for me to look into copywriting my characters. That may be an extreme, but personally I don’t want all my hard work to go to waste.

From a technical perspective, copyright is automatic. Anything you create which falls under copyright law is automatically copyrighted.

Actually *registering* your copyrights is another matter. If I recall correctly, that takes time and money, but is only really necessary if you're anticipating a lawsuit.


And frankly, if DC did decide to 'steal' one of your characters, chances are good you'd be fucked no matter what. Unless you have several million dollars to blow, their lawyers are bigger than your lawyers.

I doubt DC is looking to steal anything that they could buy outright. (see the Ron Perazza statement above) People really seem to have WB, DC, and Zuda confused with the Mafia.

As to the copyright thing, sorry Elf, but you're wrong. Registering a copyright for a work is actually a fairly minimal cost, and doing so before publication (yes, the web counts as publication) means you are entitled to a much greater scope of legal recourse, should your work fall victim to infringement. Infringement, by the way, has a pretty wide scope in this digital age. It happens all the time, and people don't even realize that it is infringement. It's really best to gird yourself in as much legal armor as you can, should things ever escalate. Consider a registered copyright something like a fire escape. You hope never to have to use it, but you should still build it, and once you do, you'll probably be pretty glad it's there for you to utilize.

To that end, Guardsman, I don't consider looking into copyrighting your work "extreme." It certainly wouldn't be a bad idea to consider registering the work you do, before you post it, provided you have the money to do so.

Learn more here. Add it to your bookmarks. Specifically, check out the circulars on comics, serials, and online works. A list of all circulars can be found here.

Just like the School House Rock! intro says, "knowledge is power."

I like the idea of making money for drawing comics....
But all that contract stuff is intimidating.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that that is an extremely massive reason why people have such trepidation toward this. You start talking contracts, it means that you start talking business. If you start talking business, suddenly your fun hobby isn't a hobby anymore. It's a job, with requirements and expectations. A lot of people find that idea pretty daunting. I'd say go for it though, especially to you. You're an amazing cartoonist.

...and finally...

Don't get me wrong here. There are a whole lot of very valid reasons why a person would not want to get involved with this, and I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise. I just don't feel like the, "there be shady dealins goin' on here!" response is warranted. In general, I'm as cynical and skeptical as anybody here, if not more so. No, we are not talking about 100% creator control here, which really seems to be a huge sticking point for a lot of people. (understandably so) Still, when I look around the Zuda site, see what they're doing to keep the community informed, and read through the punctual and lucid responses given by the guys in charge to those who ask hard questions, it honestly strikes me that this is not a con. The people involved seem genuinely concerned about doing all they can to put forth a valiant effort at creating a high quality webcomic site. To those who are willing to trade away a little creator control for things like a steady paycheck, royalty rights, large-scale promotion, and not having to do all of the business-side work yourself, this seems like a pretty solid deal. Not mind-blowing, but solid. Frankly, I'd much rather see a 'good enough to be true' proposition than a 'too good to be true' one.

So, why are people working so hard to convict this project before there's evidence of wrongdoing? After all, I might point out again that the site is not live, and a live date hasn't even been announced yet. Nobody has even submitted material to the site, aside from postcards, let alone been "screwed", except, of course, in our own imaginations, where it seems that legions of disenfranchised and starving artists have set up shop after the DC Monster reared its ugly head on the web sometime in the foggy future.

Okay, sorry. Done ranting. Frankly, I don't know why I'm so passionate about this. It's kinda scaring me.