DC's Zuda online comics

Spqrblues · Post by **Spqrblues** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:00 am

Has anyone heard anything about this new venture from DC, Zuda comics? They will be running contests for web comics, will pick comics to serialise online, will have online voting, and then will eventually print the winners in hard copy (along with six comics they've chosen themselves from the entries). I have no idea how much they're paying, but the cynic in me thinks DC has seen the success of comics on the web and in minicomic/self-published formats, and just want to snap up the best talent and get a piece of the money-action before some other publisher does. But of course, that's what any good business should do.

The website is running high on my BS-meter ("look how hip we are!"), but I haven't had my morning caffeine yet, so I'm probably pretty BS-sy myself right now.

And what's a zuda, anyway?

That guy · Post by **That guy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:35 am

It does seem kinda "Hey, look, we're hip!" ... but at the same time - hey, look... they're getting hip.

All in all, it's a smart way to branch out and, as far as I can tell, no real downsides. They get to look modern, and artists get feel respected in a classic sense (getting published). The 4:3 ratio for comics is going to turn a lotta artists off, I expect - but it will keep them from trying to recycle old material, I suppose.

All in all, I think it's keen.

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:06 am

I wouldn't participate in this, but only because I dislike publishers like DC that I feel are too commercial and don't care about the comics medium beyond how they can profit from it, (I realize it's a business, but it's a business that has to do with art, so while they have to be commercial, I don't think commercialism should be the sole thing driving the business, because that's how you end up with garbage like the "death" of Superman.) but if it was a publisher I did not dislike doing this, and they were willing to let me retain the rights to my story, I'd probably be more than happy to participate.

Spqrblues · Post by **Spqrblues** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:59 am

Shishio wrote:I wouldn't participate in this, but only because I dislike publishers like DC that I feel are too commercial and don't care about the comics medium beyond how they can profit from it

The whole "We're down with the kids" website (the bullet-points page just makes me roll my eyes) gives off such a commercial vibe, it's a shame--a sense that they've noticed the gigantic online readership and want to make inroads into this huge market they're not participating in. Any smart company wants be profitable, to find new ways to reach readers. I hope I (in a similar situation) never ever come across sounding like I'm just looking for warm bodies to fill a space, though.

This could be a win-win situation for all involved, but I'd tread carefully as a creator. I suggest everyone be cautious about what print and electronic rights and in particular what LICENSING rights DC is asking for when it either posts your comic online or decides to publish it in print. Licensing is sometimes where a big company doesn't play nice with the little creator-person--subrights, too. That is, making spin-offs, toys, postcards, t-shirts, alternative versions such as prose books and films, e-books and subscription comics on mobile phones, yadda yadda. Requiring an option on your next work or firstborn child. All that sort of thing.

Man, when did I become such a huge cynic? It could be, and probably is, that the editors running the site are gigantic webcomic fans who've been pushing DC to do this sort of thing for ages, pushing them to look at cool new art and original ideas. I hope this is so, and that the Zuda staff are really jazzed about their hip new young with-it groovy project. Dude.

Geekblather · Post by **Geekblather** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:41 am

Not to mention that a part of why Image comics was founded, because both DC and Marvel were claiming all publishing/marketing rights and things, which makes me inherently suspicious of them to begin with. If it were Image or Dark Horse running this, I'd feel a little warmer and fuzzier about it, but right now... I'll have to wait and see.

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:54 am

To be fair, I think Marvel and DC have made vast improvements to their policies in regards to creator rights. They know their talent (Except the exclusive guys.) can ditch them for better publishers, so now they have much better offers than in the past. Also, both companies have creator-owned divisions. (DC's Vertigo is all kinds of awesome.)

So they're much better to work for now, and I very strongly doubt they will rip anyone off.

I still hate them, though.

Phact0rri · Post by **Phact0rri** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:58 am

Shishio wrote:I wouldn't participate in this, but only because I dislike publishers like DC that I feel are too commercial and don't care about the comics medium beyond how they can profit from it,

I have to disagree to a point. yes they are a business (owned by time-warner), but they also do, do comics for arts sake. I mean if you look at the vertigo line monthly sales, if they were marvel most of these off the cuff titles wouldn't get a chance to shine. but DC actually keeps bringing out these titles. course for vertigo a lot of the comiques don't shine monthly as they do in trade format. but I still give props to DC for titles like Fables, Hellblazer, Scalped and the old favorites like the Invisibles, and Sandman.

as to zuda... I dunno what they are thinking about the "ongoing" ones for thier site though. 52 consecutive weeks of comiques. I dunno how many creators can manage that *l*... I wonder if they pay or not.

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:22 am

Seeing as how I said Vertigo is "All kinds of awesome," in my last post, it's obvious I agree.

However, I was talking about DC in general, not their offshoot labels like Vertigo. (Which again, is supremely awesome. Fables is one of my favourite comics ever.)

I feel publishers need to find a balance. You need to treat your staff (i.e. creators) fairly, respect the artistic integrity of the comics medium, and of course, make a profit.

But Marvel, and DC are so purely commercial that they pull shit like killing and reviving superheroes all the time, and their continuity, good god, don't get me started on that.

Shit like this does so much damage to the comics industry.

Bustertheclown · Post by **Bustertheclown** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:52 am

I think you are being pretty cynical. DC has been known for being pretty cutting edge in the past, after all. For example, the success of the Vertigo line helped to change comics, and give the respect to the medium that it's currently gaining. Sure, lately they've been going and doing things like turning Hellblazer into a CG/action clusterfuck starring Keanu "Whoa, demons!" Reeves, but I still believe that DC's role in helping bring comics to the forefront of as viable entertainment and even art is greatly underappreciated. If this was Marvel, I'd be singing a different song, but DC has shown in the past that it can be both adventurous and sophisticated when it comes to publishing comics.

*addendum* (while I was writing this, several posts were made in front of me saying the exact same thing)

You are right, though, about DC being a gigantic corporate entity (as far as comics are concerned, anyway) which only cares about the bottom line. They are a business, and their business is intellectual property. So, people should be careful about what rights they give away in order to be published. Awareness and willingness is key, though, not paranoia. If you know your rights, and decide what to do with those rights before you go in, then you can avoid most pitfalls.

On a personal note, I'd just about give my left nut (which is my favorite nut) in order to be able to wake up every day and just get paid to draw comics, especially comics that are my own. At this point in my life, I feel like they could make movies, toys, videogames, and then movies based on the videogames, with whole new lines of toys, as well as cereal and fast food tie-ins, and pay me little to nothing for it, as long as it meant I didn't have to throw another box, or unload another truck so that I could eat. I just want to be a work-a-day artist. I just want to be able to do my job from anywhere in the world that I want to live. I just want to draw.

Plus, for all the negative points that have been brought up about this new site, there are plenty of positives to think about, too. For instance, this is a webcomic site spearheaded by DC, which has money. This site will be hyped to the public. You don't think that every single issue of Batman won't have a Zuda ad on the back cover for months, come October? This means that, should you submit your work, it will be seen. Your name will become more known, you might garner more readers, you might be offered jobs, based upon your showing on that one little site. It's all networking, and this sounds like a great networking opportunity for those who actually might want to make a living at working on comics.

Also, the 4:3 aspect ratio may seem constrained, but it IS a pretty standard box. Anyone who would be turned off by such a detail is probably too obstinate about how they work. It's not like they chose a trapezoid as their format. Plus, 4:3 is a ratio, not a measurement. It merely means four parts to three parts. So, as long as the work falls within the ratio, then it's fine. You could work 12"x9" or 2"x1.5" if you wanted to, as long as it fits the 4:3 equation. I'm sure there will be a standard set of dimensions to suit publication, but the size in which a thing printed/displayed is not necessarily reflective of the size in which it is created. Personally, I don't see how it would be a limitation, really, given that it is such a standard, especially for those who have both print and web in mind. All you're really doing is flipping your workspace into a "landscape", so that it fits your computer screen without having to scroll to read. This makes the work look better to the eye, and shows that you care about your web readers.

Lastly, wait, I forgot. I had a third point, but now I've lost it. So, I guess I'll just end with this. We could all sit around this nice little Ivory Tower we've built up, and be too cool, sipping our cappuccinos and saying "Fuck DC and their webcomics, they're corporate monsters" in heavy continental accents, but when it all comes right down to it, it's a rare opportunity for creators who too often complain about having a lack of opportunities in comics. Somebody is going to take advantage of this opportunity, and make a real showing from it. Then, the rest, who were too cool to try, and who were more ready to make excuses for why they wouldn't do it than just sitting down and going for it, are going to end up shuffling their feet, lamenting at how they didn't get such an opportunity. This is a rare occasion. This is a ground-floor open call from a major player in the business we all participate in. The worst that could happen is we don't get in. The best that could happen is we get to live the dream, make our comics, get them published, and get paid.

I've signed up for the mailing list. I'll be creating entries.

Sorcery101 · Post by **Sorcery101** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:55 pm

I'd also like to add landscape format is not that big a deal. It's actually a bit nice that I can do a super long shot without it being super tiny or having to connect 2 pages. Also, easier to do wide screen type shots.

And I think I'll give it a shot. I have a few ideas kicking around in my head other than Sorcery 101.

Edit: This rant about Zuda was brought to my attention and thought I'd share it

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:14 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone should avoid this, I'm just saying *I* wouldn't work for DC, it's not for *me*. If it works for you, great.

It may not sound like it, but I actually agree with most of what you said.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:34 pm

Well, we have yet to see if they pull this off. It's not the first time that someone big announces going into webcomics, and then does absolutely nothing. Not this big, but still.

But in case it does work, I think this'll do good to print comic industry (god knows they need fresh approach and ideas) but would it do good to webcomics?

I've always been torn about injection of big business into webcomics. We'd all like to get some money, but we also know that anyone who sets the system that allows us to get that money would require us to give up on a lot of creative freedom. That isn't much of my concern, because if I don't want, I don't have to work for them.
One other thing bothers me, and that is, if DC wants to be viable online, to charge for those comics on net, they'll have to get awfully competitive. So if I was indy author and site admin, would that competitiveness work in some way toward limiting me as an independent, limit distribution of my comics (though I don't see how) or perhaps limit free approach to my site, like, more aggressive campaign or something like that? I mean, when the money turns in, competition is never too friendly.

Whether I'd work for DC? Oh, I'd have to see the contract first. I'd apply for this, if I had time to develop something new, but I'd never really apply some pet project, because I'm kinda afraid that through some kink in contract they'd manage to get too much control/copyrights/whatever of it.

On a personal note, I'd just about give my left nut (which is my favorite nut)

I think that I speak for everybody when I say that that note was just a tiny bit too personal.

The Neko · Post by **The Neko** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:59 pm

Shishio wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone should avoid this, I'm just saying *I* wouldn't work for DC, it's not for *me*. If it works for you, great.

It may not sound like it, but I actually agree with most of what you said.

I used to work for DC. It wasn't that bad... except when you work the conventions. THEN it sucks.

Levi-chan · Post by **Levi-chan** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:20 pm

mcDuffies wrote: One other thing bothers me, and that is, if DC wants to be viable online, to charge for those comics on net, they'll have to get awfully competitive. So if I was indy author and site admin, would that competitiveness work in some way toward limiting me as an independent, limit distribution of my comics (though I don't see how) or perhaps limit free approach to my site, like, more aggressive campaign or something like that? I mean, when the money turns in, competition is never too friendly.

Given that the distribution costs for webcomics are much, much lower than their print counterparts, I really don't see how it could be a big problem. People will see the comics they want to see, regardless of if a big-mega-super-ultra-conglomerate-corp is backing them up. God bless the internet.

And while aggressive advertisement may be a problem, it can also be a catalyst for other people to discover, well. Webcomics. A big chunk of webcomic readers are not exactly average joes.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:48 pm

Levi-chan wrote:Given that the distribution costs for webcomics are much, much lower than their print counterparts, I really don't see how it could be a big problem. People will see the comics they want to see, regardless of if a big-mega-super-ultra-conglomerate-corp is backing them up. God bless the internet.

That's how it looks from my perspective, but my perspective is not one of a big business businessman. To try to beat competition is a logical thing they'd do, I don't know what they could do to make it less likely that someone would read my indy comic, but I ain't one of them. I don't know, I really wouldn't discard any course of events.

Levi-chan · Post by **Levi-chan** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:13 pm

Royalty charges that span both independently-created, and Zuda-backed works?

It happened to internet radio, after all.

Bustertheclown · Post by **Bustertheclown** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:59 pm

mcDuffies wrote:
On a personal note, I'd just about give my left nut (which is my favorite nut)
I think that I speak for everybody when I say that that note was just a tiny bit too personal.

That was a joke. I don't have a favorite.

Anyway, based on the meager research I've done, it sounds like it'll be more of an advertising-based get-it-for-free kind of model, which will probably feed and be fed by the print application of the work.

I don't really understand all of the hullabaloo about the fact that it's a corporate venture. Frankly, I'm surprised as hell that it's taken this long. Webcomics have been around long enough, and other large publishers, as well as every major syndicate, already have a web presence. So, why would it cause an uproar that DC would finally go "hey, what about this webernet we keep hearing about?" The reaction to this honestly makes no sense, except for the fact that those who seem to be railing most loudly against such a move seem to be the staunchest haters of the Man. (see Sorcery101's link above)

The way I see it, if you aren't the Man, and none of us here are, then you've got three primary options. You can spend your time working for the Man, fighting the Man, or hiding from the Man. I've spent the last ten years fighting and hiding, and I'm tired of losing and living in obscurity and poverty. Right now, all I want to do is draw for a living. I've got plenty of throw-away projects I could pass off, so it's not like I'd be feeding my pets to DC. If I ever expect to stop working crappy day jobs which leave me too little time to draw and live a life at the same time, then I've got to take every opportunity that crosses my path, even if it means "selling my soul", or "falling into a trap". (these last two paraphrases are not so much words typed on this here forum, but rather words present around the internet in response to the news of Zuda)

Phact0rri · Post by **Phact0rri** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:15 am

I actually read about Zuda in the latest Comic shop news, and its one of a few new things DC is doing. One of the most interesting things I read, was that DC-Japan opening up "M" in japan, as an original japanese manga publisher.

Sorcery101 · Post by **Sorcery101** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:10 am

bustertheclown wrote:the staunchest haters of the Man. (see Sorcery101's link above)

A good chunk of them I wouldn't called haters of the Man because a good chunk of them I know either are or have worked for "the Man." They are just suspicious because contests like what Zuda is setting up have popped up all over the place, where the pay is "payment in acclaim." And with not too much mention of the contracts details I think they have a right to be at least a little wary. But it's more because of similar set up that either faded away or got involved in a legal scandal. Little of it has to do with DC. I actually think that because it's DC the sketchy up is slightly more creditable. Since DC stays in business because of artists like yourself who would "just about give their left nut." It just wouldn't be smart for them to fuck you and a lot of other artists completely over.

Spqrblues · Post by **Spqrblues** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:17 am

What sorcery101 says.

Because the Man is out to make profit for the Man, not to pay the Talent's bill much less promote the sublime vision of the Talent's brainchild (in most cases), creators must always take care in examining contracts, must decide for themselves whether it's worth it to sell off parts of their creation (not every artist considers their ideas or story universe a disposable commodity from a brainful of other such commodities), must decide whether it's worth their while to come under someone else's creative control, and must decide whether or not the (as someone elsewhere described it) "We are much with teh Casual Friday" weird speech patterns of the Zuda website are so hysterically dumb it makes reading the details of the site darned near impossible, what with all the wild laughing.

Anyway. It is entirely possible a couple of us here are the Man. Just, not that Man. Or the Woman. You never know where you'll make a connection that actually pays in, like, real monies. For some people, the DC imprimatur and DC reservoir of eyeballs is the sort of payment they want, and giving up parts of or rights to the work so that DC can do what it does to fill its own bank account is, well, part of the deal.