Handicapped by Fanaticism

[Rhenny]

Thing is, that guy is out of comics now because if people want Byrne, why get an imitation?

A better solution would be to get a ballpeen hammer and beat yourself in the head for wanting Byrne in the first place.

I'll never forgive him for Spider-Man: Chapter One...

Hey.. I was young, I didnt realize what a classless tool he was until i met him.

[Rhenny]

Fanfiction is literary masturbation. It's fun, you get better at the real thing by doing it, and someone might even enjoy watching you, but in the end you're only pleasing yourself.

Also leads to "Mary Sue" isms...

Why of course my character is smarter than 7 of 9 and has bigger boobies..shes a new kind of Borg,, (Insert upchuck)

[Geekblather]

Huh. This is a really interesting question.
I majored in English, so almost all of my friends write for their own pleasure to some degree, and a fair portion of them do fanfic. They do it because there's a world that is already created, and the 'rules' are already made, but they use the fanfics to take scenarios and imagine "what would happen if..."
If the world blew up? If these two people never got together? If this one was dying? and so on and so forth. They also write a fair amount of original fic, which is just as good. It's when they're looking for comfort, or to ease back into writing that they write fanfic, because yes, it still uses literary muscle, but a lot of the groundwork has already been laid.
I think that it also must use it's whole own set of muscles, because you have to figure out not just how another character looks, but how to recreate them, in how they look, talk, behave, react, which is something that a person creating an original character already kind of 'knows.'

[LibertyCabbage]

As for fanfiction, I just don't read it. There are more than enough original works that I haven't gotten to yet or would even like to re-read to be concerned with what I consider to be a lesser form of writing.

[Kirb]

Fanfiction is literary masturbation. It's fun, you get better at the real thing by doing it, and someone might even enjoy watching you, but in the end you're only pleasing yourself.

Quoted for truth.

Fan-fiction can be good as training wheels, or as a fun writing exercise. But truthfully, designing characters, plot and world-building is a fundamental part of writing. Take away these factors, and you're only half the writer you could be.

RA Salvatore does a hell of a lot of what is technically fanfiction. But his involved development of the Forgotten Realms world has shown that he is more than capable of creating original settings, plots and characters.

[Kris X]

Fanfiction is the very reason I don't like most fantasy novels.

Yes, I've written a fanfiction, but it was merely a forum amusement. Sure you should study other people's works, but using their characters and settings? No, not for me.

I find that the most enjoyable part in comicking and writing is the ability to create original characters and places. To create my own world, I have less rules to tie me down.

To each their own, but you probably won't find me writing that stuff seriously.

Now, there is the argument that everything that could be written, has been done... But I also disagree--given all the new books, comics, and movies coming out still. Plus everyone always has their own story to tell.

[Adobedragon]

For the bored or those who like Internet kerfuffles, there's the recurring fan fiction debate on Lee Goldberg's blog. While I think Goldberg makes some good points (I believe fan fiction is copyright infringement), he is a tad too obsessed with the issue, so I'm not giving him a link. Google for his blog (A Writer's Life), and then click "fan fic" under the Categories list on the left.

The comments at the blog seem to attract two extremes: "Fan fiction is illegal and only moral reprobates would write it," vs. "Fan fiction is perfectly legal and I have a divine right to use someone else's copyrighted characters and milieu."

Personally, I think the masturbation analogy is apt for fan fiction.

[McDuffies]

Eh, well, I've seen some great fanfiction, but no matter how good, it always has some serious drawbacks. First of all, it's basically like making a fanart, but then doing it for years and years. Honoring someone's work is great, but do you really want to spend years honoring one person and his work? The most material issue is, I guess, you'll never be really taken seriously and you have to give up on your art ever being more than fun. I'm guessing your friend really isn't interested in ever taking his writing on a more professional level, I assume he knows what kind of legal issues he'd have in that case. Also, his basic audience is somewhat limited to fans of original story, because no matter how much it stands on it's own, it's still primarily written for fans of original story.
Dunno, my writing urge has always been taking me to the other direction. Getting an idea and creating the concept is to me one of the most interesting parts, wouldn't want to skip parts of them by taking so much from other work of fiction. Plus, I wouldn't want to be that much associated to other author. I guess I don't think the way your friend does, though you gotta respect his dedication.

[Lieutenant Locust]

Wow, this thread has reached two pages already? I didn't expect this many people to reply! But thank you all. I'll try and reply to everyone, but if I don't reply to you, please don;t be offended. It's probably because you worded things eloquently and I had nothing to add on.

I'm all for originallity.

It's really hard to do, but if done well it can be really great. Star Wars is considered by many to be a really great original film, but it was heavily influenced by the Flash Gordon style shows that were around at the time (plus borrowing heavily from other sources such as Westerns).

Was it really? I watched the trilogy when I was very young, but now I want to watch them again to see if I can see the influence. And I really like your idea; I think it's something really worth trying.

Tellurider, you're absolutely right. My sister used to trace dinosaurs from books all the time, and then she began reproducing the dinosaurs without needing the book because she was accustomed to drawing the curves. Then the dinosaurs began to change into dragons, horses, chimeras- features were added and dropped, and then she began practicing from different perspectives. Her style looks nothing like the books she started from, and her pictures are really quite beautiful. The same goes with writing- I've seen some writers that begin their careers by inserting their character into a story they like, usually endowing their character with Mary Su-like abilities (as someone further down the thread mentions) but as their writing progresses, their characters usually become more believeable. For the most part, they usually break away from fanfictions altogether because they feel accomplished enough to start their own projects.

Black Sparrow, I agree; fanfiction is most certainly a legitimate form of writing. A great deal of books available are polished fanfictions of popular shows, like Star Trek or Final Conflict. Not that I've ever read any of them, of course. Cough. What bothers me about the fanfictions my friends involves himself in is that, halfway through his plot, he suddenly becomes frustrated because he can't go through with a specific action because it would defy the rules of the universe he's chosen for the story, he scraps the entire project. It makes me tear my hair out.

Keffria, in regards to your second post, I've always (and possibly wrongly) attributed some fanfiction writers with laziness. The vast majority of them are not lazy, they simply wish to make a tribute to a story they find to be either highly entertaining or, in the least, amusing. But if someone is highly capable of making their own characters, plot, dialogue, climax- why would they want to work within the boundries someone else has drawn out? Because it's easier. And because people are already familiar with the characters / world you're using, so there's less explaining on your part. And if it's a popular story you're based in, people will gravitate to your story just because it writes about the characters they enjoy, so a fanbase is practically waiting just based on what you include in your writing, but not the quality. I have personal experience with that because, after a dare from my friend, I tried to write a fanfiction. I made it as abysmal as possible, and had fun mutating all the characters into personalities they were not. And...I actually had a large selection of people commenting and telling me how good this was, simply because the object of the fanfiction was a popular show at the time.

Kasaii, that's true. Passion is critical when it comes to any form of art. I never actually considered him not being able to be good at writing original things, because he's fairly decent at writing fanfictions, so I only assumed he would be good at moving back to original works. But he is passionate about his stories, and I think I agree that it's one of the most important parts.

(the artist for my comic doesn't yet know they'll be working with me)

...wait...what?

And here I was thinking everyone missed that. My plan involves a great deal of bribes and kittens. I think it should work.

Fabio Ciccone, that is a classic argument that you brought up. But I really enjoy your second paragraph- that is so true. Elves and orcs may have been done time and again, but depending on what else you throw into the mix, it makes it new and entertaining.

And Rhenny, I haven't actually heard of that happening, but it would be absolutely terrible- if someone does a fanfiction of a popular show, and the writers of that show become 'inspired' by the fanfiction...I wonder who would win if that mess ever went to court?! But I agree with how to make something your own. When I was younger, my characters always started as another character from some media, but before I wrote anything down my internal proofreading machine went over the idea again and again to edit out any trace of another person's work, so in the end I was left with the cool idea, my original character, and no taint of someone else.

I think I've heard Lee Goldman before, but I don't know where. And I think I'll look him up tomorrow, when I'm not half asleep. Thank you all again- I think I'll go banter with my friend again.

[Kasaii]

Look at Timothy Zahn. His Star Wars fanfiction is so iconic, many fans decided that 'his' Clone Wars were far superior to those that George Lucas actually wrote.

Sarcasm On***** "I think Frank Baum could write a better Star Wars than Lucas can at this point in his career".. *****Sarcasm off

...

Dammit.

Now I am imagining Star Wars in the style of Frank L. Baum. "The Jedi Of Oz."

Ok, Luke is clearly Dorothy. If we're going by type, Han is the Scarecrow, 3P0 is the Tin Man, and Chewie is the Lion.

On the other hand, if it's personality instead... maybe Leia is Dorothy. R2D2 is Toto. Luke is the Scarecrow, Han is the Tin Man, 3P0 is the Cowardly Lion, and Chewbacca is... uh....

Hm.

This bears some consideration.

Crap.

[Kasaii]

More seriously, I would like to drop another quick note - there is a difference between writing in someone else's setting and doing so with someone else's characters.

Writing in another setting than one you create is technically not that different from writing a modern story. It's not as though you get to create New York, after all. Similarly, the better "fanfic" published works tend to be ones that stay away from actual published characters, and meander off into the corners of a setting. (The plethora of Dragonlance or Forgotten Realms stuff out there is particularly notable for this.)

(And in my defense, I only know this because I used to live in a smaller city. The scifi-fantasy section at the library was rather small, and I read about two to three pages a minute. When it takes two hours to chew through a pulp novel, you start hitting the dregs real fast. )

[Anarchist]

what i do, is, i make an entirely origanel comic, not basing characters or environment off other comics. it's the actions i sometimes do. sometime's ill be reading a comic, and i'll say, "hey, thats a good idea, it would run good with my comic" so then i base it, not entirely ripping off, but other comics give me ideas of what to draw next

[Dr Legostar]

Look at Timothy Zahn. His Star Wars fanfiction is so iconic, many fans decided that 'his' Clone Wars were far superior to those that George Lucas actually wrote.

Sarcasm On***** "I think Frank Baum could write a better Star Wars than Lucas can at this point in his career".. *****Sarcasm off

...

Dammit.

Now I am imagining Star Wars in the style of Frank L. Baum. "The Jedi Of Oz."

Ok, Luke is clearly Dorothy. If we're going by type, Han is the Scarecrow, 3P0 is the Tin Man, and Chewie is the Lion.

On the other hand, if it's personality instead... maybe Leia is Dorothy. R2D2 is Toto. Luke is the Scarecrow, Han is the Tin Man, 3P0 is the Cowardly Lion, and Chewbacca is... uh....

Hm.

This bears some consideration.

Crap.

::raspy breathing:: I'll get you, my pretty, and your little droid too!

[Keffria]

And because people are already familiar with the characters / world you're using, so there's less explaining on your part. And if it's a popular story you're based in, people will gravitate to your story just because it writes about the characters they enjoy, so a fanbase is practically waiting just based on what you include in your writing, but not the quality. I have personal experience with that because, after a dare from my friend, I tried to write a fanfiction. I made it as abysmal as possible, and had fun mutating all the characters into personalities they were not. And...I actually had a large selection of people commenting and telling me how good this was, simply because the object of the fanfiction was a popular show at the time.

Hoo-boy. That's another thing that I find annoying about fanfiction, but when I try to explain this, I'm usually told "You're just jealous!" And, to an extent, that's true - it's analogous to watching a horrendously awful webcomic getting praise heaped all over it, while your own work (which, crappy as it may be, is at least marginally better) sits ignored in some obscure corner of the internet. Argh.

But there's also the thought that some people are so obsessed that they will swallow anything if it's written about their fandom, no matter how bad it may be. It's sad to think that there are people who might be good writers with time and practice, but who are encouraged by these screaming fangirls to write trash.

[Spqrblues]

Add another vote for the legitimacy of fanfic and the legitimacy of a writer who does it well. To feel otherwise is to say that being a staff writer for a Law & Order series or for Doctor Who or a twenty-five-year-old soap opera is just writing fanfic. Or, as others have mentioned, writing media tie-ins. Like "original" fiction, fanfic can be masturbatorily lousy, or it can be as brilliant as anything wirtten by Shakespeare in a universe he borrowed from someone else. IOW, it's not the genre, it's the writing.

If you do want to encourage this person to do something else, just let him know how you feel about his skill without, y'know, telling him he's wasting his talents. Keep telling him you love the original characters and situations he creates and that, one, it would be interesting to see what will come out of his mind in developing a new world the way he develops characters, and two, there's more potential for profit once one moves beyond from the limited professional venues for writing in someone else's backyard.

But some people just aren't interested in creating entirely new worlds, and/or aren't interested in profit. It isn't their thing. It isn't inspiring or fun. They'd write stories set in 21st-century New York (a scenario they didn't create), but that doesn't interest them, so they write in, say, the Buffyverse or some other -verse with its laws and conventions. Likewise, readers want what they want. They may read online just to get a fresh injection of Harry and Draco, and would read nothing at all if that weren't available, not even a brilliantly original story, because an entirely new scenario is not what they're after for their entertainment. You can lead the horses to a trough full of champagne, but some will still want to lap from the rainwater barrel instead.

And since there are plenty of comics out there that look a whole lot like someone else's universe with the serial numbers filed off--not just on the web but in print--he could always go that route. Leave out the identifying marks, change some names, etc. etc.

Legal issues about copyright are an entirely different topic.

[Dr Legostar]

in the end good writing is good writing, and bad writing is bad writing, and it's not really an issue whether it's a fan fiction or not.

[Black Sparrow]

in the end good writing is good writing, and bad writing is bad writing, and it's not really an issue whether it's a fan fiction or not.

Amen.

[Rkolter]

My .02 on the subject:

A well written original story is equal in all respects to a well written fan fiction, provided the author of the original work is ok with fan fictions being written.

I know for a fact that an original story takes more work to produce - you do have to design the characters, you have no previous written reference on how they may act, and you have to design the world they live in.

As a human being and a writer, I applaud any writer who makes their own story, their own world, and their own characters. Good for you; for better or worse, it's a difficult thing to do.

But as a reader, I don't care. Your writing sells me your story, not your characters or your world.

[Sketchywallflowr]

I had a similar problem as your friend. I would write really good fanfiction, but it wasn't really mine to claim. So I took a fanfic I did and completely changed everything related to what I was mooching from and made it my own world. If you look close (and if I told you what I was fic-ing) you could see all the similarities. But long story short, a fanfic can turn into a full-length novel.

Besides... the book Wicked is just a really well written fanfiction.

[Redtech]

Ironically I've written more fancition stuff than original works. But I believe that it can lead to something "greater" if that is the word.

I'm thinking of the Star Trek "Strange New Worlds" competition where they literally do a fanfic competition but the best entries are interesting and convincing points of view on new stories. I rather like the "Picard really would do something like that" versus the "Damn, 7 has huge jugs!" kind of fic. The best fanfictions do have character, story and intelligant design. But personally, I find it tragic if someone is limited by their own imaginations and cannot create new worlds for themselves.

In short, I'm sitting on the fence!