Handicapped by Fanaticism

[Lieutenant Locust]

I hope I'm not being presumptuous- I haven't yet joined the comic part of this web site (the artist for my comic doesn't yet know they'll be working with me), but I was wondering if I could get some opinions anyways.

There are many forms of art out there that has been based loosely off someone else's work. I mean fanfictions and fancomics, a number of which I have bookmarked, because they're fun to read.

I have a friend (a writer) who has been doing stories for almost eight years now, but all the stories...are a type of fanfiction. He started with anime, moved onto stories, progressed into roleplaying, and went back into television shows. The stories he writes are fascinating, his original characters are believable, and I've laughed myself to tears over the interactions and situations. But every land, every supporting character, and ultimately the rules that govern these lands...are based on pre-made systems. I've asked him, time and again, to attempt to write something that doesn't wrap around an existing media, but he claims it's impossible to step out of the role, and that he has too many ideas in his head to form them coherently unless there's already a system for them.

I can liken his stories to comics based on or around Final Fantasy, Sonic the Hedgehog, Mario, etc. There are some amazing gems out there, but after completing several story arcs, I find myself wondering how the artists / authors would do if their works weren't based on a pre-existing concept, and if they simply tried something original. A good example would be by an artist who goes by the pen name of Bleedman, and his story, "The Grimm Adventures from Down Below". All the characters that made appearances in the webcomic were from other cartoons and series, but it was an excellent comic. Now, he's decided to put that story aside and do something original.

I've dropped the issue with my friend, as it seems he has no interest in stepping out from under the shadow of other peoples' works. It makes me grind my teeth, because he could be so much greater if he did. What I wanted to know was if anyone here felt the same way, or whether I'm simply a prude when it comes to these things. I'm rather curious to see whether other people view it as the same artistic handicap that I do.

[Dr Neo Lao]

I'm all for originallity.

It's really hard to do, but if done well it can be really great. Star Wars is considered by many to be a really great original film, but it was heavily influenced by the Flash Gordon style shows that were around at the time (plus borrowing heavily from other sources such as Westerns).

If your friend is stuck in the mindset of "I can't do original" then odds are that you won't be able to break him of it.

However, I would suggest the following; have your friend team up with someone else and write together. One comes up with "the rules" (groundwork, background, basic characters etc) and then let him explore that world and write the plots / stories.

Having a team like that could produce some really great works (or some spectacular fights... )

[Tellurider]

I'm a believer in the theory that nearly everyone starts with imitation. Many, many comic artists started out by mimicking a comic that they admired. In many art classes I've taken, you start out studying famous works and mimicking them in order to learn those techniques.

Once you've learned the techniques, then you have the tools to go on to something original. I think a lot of writers do the same thing - their first stories heavily follow what they're into and admire, until they learn how to craft their own worlds.

I don't think that borrowing someone else's "universe" is a bad thing. It's kind of like people who learn the guitar because all they want to do is start a Metallica cover band, not make anything original. But if your friend really has the talent to come up with his own stuff, I think that eventually he'll start to do it. Mimicking someone else is only satisfying for so long - eventually, those with the talent and drive want to make something all their own.

It isn't easy, it's very hard to come up with anything original these days (look at the movie industry - sequels, sequels, based off of comics, sequels). But there's nothing as satisfying as making something all your own, coming up with your own unique style, creating your own universe. If that's something your friend wants, he'll start to do it someday. If not, let him go on making great covers. People still like to go and see cover bands, I know I do.

[Magpye]

As a writer, I'm much happier creating my own original settings. I wrote my first and last fanfiction at the age of thirteen and found that the constraints of sticking to someone else's pre-defined world rules... well, frustrating.

It could be your friend is happy with having these pre-defined boundaries and that dispensing with these takes them out of their comfort zone. Some people just don't feel comfortable defining their own limits, or the enormity of the task just puts them off entirely. I like it, because I'm an obsessive control freak. But I can see that some people might find it daunting to create their own world. Once you get into the habit of using certain "backgrounds", it's pretty hard to shift your perceptions to doing something entirely new.

[Keffria]

On one hand, I think it's important for an aspiring author to just write, and it doesn't matter whether it's original or fan-fiction, because either way, it's much-needed exercise. Better to write derivative fan-work than nothing at all, as there's always the hope that this person will move on to original writing at some point, and they will have had some practice beforehand.

On the other hand, I'm disgusted with what I just said. When you base your writing on sources like anime or video games, you're often starting out with horrible characterization and done-to-death plots - I haven't checked the numbers, but I can almost guarantee you that there's far more fanfiction for the latest fighting anime flavour of the month than for the more mature stuff out there. Poor source material makes it that much more difficult to produce something that isn't shitty; if you consider yourself a good writer, you're going to want to be true to the world you're writing in, whether it's your own or one that some stressed-out scenario writer cobbled together a few hours before the deadline. People get to a point, writing bad fanfiction, where all the worst topoi of their fandoms suddenly become really great ideas - orphaned kids out to Save the World, faceplants into boobs, androgynous man-lovin' angels...

I also think that Bleedman doesn't belong in a discussion of good comics. But that's just me.

[Black Sparrow]

I'm going to go against the tide here and say that fanfiction is a legitimate form of writing, especially if your friend has become as good at it as you say. Writing, for most people, is a hobby... doomed to never make the writer a dime. So who are we to judge WHAT someone writes? If he gets enjoyment out of it, and other people get enjoyment out of it, I see little cause to complain.

That said... I can see where you're coming from.

If you really want him to break out of it, you're going to have to make him want to break out of it... at the moment, it seems like he's pretty happy as he is. So I can't offer any advice there.

[Dr Legostar]

original writing and fanfiction writing are two different things. They're entirely different excercises of the writing muscle and both can be valid. The latter in the sense that constrains you, makes you write around something else, you can't just change the rules every time it suits you, you have to fit into someone else's rules and ideas. just cause most fan fictions are bad doesn't make the concept bad, most writing in general is bad, as is most everything really.

[Joel Fagin]

'Nothing wrong with fan fiction. I started out on fan fiction. You get a built in audience and feedback. Kinda like webcomics, actually. This might be the problem, in fact. Feedback and fans keeps people motivated and editors give very little.

But you've got to take it seriously and not just write fan fiction because, wow, Doctor Who is so cool! It's writing first.

In fact, it's a good exercise if you do it right. Spend enough time getting the characters right when they're not yours and you'll learn a lot.*

- Joel Fagin

* The seventh Doctor and Ace were a hugely enjoyable challenge.

[Keffria]

The thing is, people who write *good* fanfiction generally have a grasp on things like plot, character, pacing, dialogue, etc. and there's nothing keeping them from writing original stories or, at the very least, highly derivative original fiction, if they're not yet comfortable with the idea of world-building. Why settle for someone else's ideas when you're perfectly capable of creating your own?

I also don't buy this talk about not criticizing people for their fanfiction work, or for any writing in general, whether good or bad - ESPECIALLY when they put it on the internet.

[LAO]

If he enjoys living in someone else's world, let him. But make sure he realizes that he will never be anything more than "fan-fiction guy", no matter how well he writes.

[Kasaii]

If he enjoys living in someone else's world, let him. But make sure he realizes that he will never be anything more than "fan-fiction guy", no matter how well he writes.

I disagree.

Look at Timothy Zahn. His Star Wars fanfiction is so iconic, many fans decided that 'his' Clone Wars were far superior to those that George Lucas actually wrote.

Alan Moore is a phenomenal writer, but his League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is basically an extended crossover fanfic.

It can be an artistic handicap, or it can be a boon. Most importantly - if he likes to do it, and it's good work, he doesn't have to stop. It's entirely possible that he wouldn't do well at original work, simply because it doesn't grab him in the same way. Passion is critical to good writing, after all.

[Noise Monkey]

(the artist for my comic doesn't yet know they'll be working with me)

...wait...what?

[Fabio Ciccone]

Well, I might anger some people when I say this, but I really think it's almost impossible to do something REALLY original nowadays, when it's so easy to see other people's works and we're constantly exposed to every kind of information. Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE (Neil Gaiman? Frank Miller? Bill "the God" Watterson? Yes, they too), is inspired by something or someone, everyone builds the foundation to his set, characters and stories around the things that influenced him or her, it's a fact.

But the thing is that the way you mix your influences may produce something very unique. Something that no one could (or would) do like you, and that's the fun of it. The question in this case is more about HOW than WHAT.

My exemple: I write fantasy, but I chose not to use things such as elfs, dragons and orcs in my fantasy world, because I wanted to do something different. DIFFERENT, but not BETTER. I know there're many better artists and writers around making better fantasy with these elements.

That said, I actually agree with Black Sparrow when he says most people do this as a hobby, so they should do what they have fun doing. If your audience like it and, more importante, if YOU like it, than do it!



Man, I used LOTS of higher case letter on this one!

[Rhenny]

Homage’s are fine, but to ever make something of yourself and your concept long haul you have to go out on a limb and do your thing. Writing wise, I could, and was sorely tempted to crank out another Super hero yarn. My site name reflects that, it's based after a super character I have had for years. Thing is.. Marvel and DC and many others are doing that and doing it well. I don't think we need another of that right now... Let alone me doing my impassioned remake of the travesty that is the current She-Hulk. I could do that, but what do I accomplish but adding to their concept while strip mining my ideas with nothing to show for it?

Artistically, I can do a great rip of John Byrne or Jim Lee but what will that get me? Image had a guy once, a fan artist who did a fantastic John Byrne called “Vic Bridges”, he did Byrne at his heyday before he thought he could ink. Thing is, that guy is out of comics now because if people want Byrne, why get an imitation?

I think it’s great fun to do that “what if” with established characters, but ultimately it’s doing free work for someone who might work for the real project who sees your work, and then you have given them an idea that they will get paid for.

[Rhenny]

I'm going to go against the tide here and say that fanfiction is a legitimate form of writing, especially if your friend has become as good at it as you say. Writing, for most people, is a hobby... doomed to never make the writer a dime. So who are we to judge WHAT someone writes? If he gets enjoyment out of it, and other people get enjoyment out of it, I see little cause to complain.

That said... I can see where you're coming from.

If you really want him to break out of it, you're going to have to make him want to break out of it... at the moment, it seems like he's pretty happy as he is. So I can't offer any advice there.

A good trick to use on fanfic is to write it, set it aside for a few days..then come back and tweak it to original? I find fanfic a safe net to use to egt the story on paper, then in rewrite stage I originalize it.

[Rhenny]

Look at Timothy Zahn. His Star Wars fanfiction is so iconic, many fans decided that 'his' Clone Wars were far superior to those that George Lucas actually wrote.

Sarcasm On***** "I think Frank Baum could write a better Star Wars than Lucas can at this point in his career".. *****Sarcasm off

[Noise Monkey]

Thing is, that guy is out of comics now because if people want Byrne, why get an imitation?

A better solution would be to get a ballpeen hammer and beat yourself in the head for wanting Byrne in the first place.

I'll never forgive him for Spider-Man: Chapter One...

[Tenma]

Fanfiction is literary masturbation. It's fun, you get better at the real thing by doing it, and someone might even enjoy watching you, but in the end you're only pleasing yourself.

[Fabio Ciccone]

Fanfiction is literary masturbation. It's fun, you get better at the real thing by doing it, and someone might even enjoy watching you, but in the end you're only pleasing yourself.

Beautiful.

[Turnsky]

Fanfiction is literary masturbation. It's fun, you get better at the real thing by doing it, and someone might even enjoy watching you, but in the end you're only pleasing yourself.

i'm leery of fanfic writers, if only because i had a fanfic writer issue a while back myself, wanted a crossover, ignoring how both comics worked, major plot points, and wanted to add his marty-stu self into the story as the protagonist.