Pogs and Chans (how to get on the front page) UPDATE!

War · Post by **War** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:44 am

Terrible sentence structure, a little bad grammar, misspelt words, and some bits which just shouldn't be there.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:12 pm

Escushion wrote:Interesting comparison .

Anyway, I can't flip any of my artwork really because of this thing with my hand that causes it to be drawn so it'll look weird flipped. Instead I stretched her.

Incidentally, theory of perception says that the center of balance of human eye is not strictly in the middle, but a bit to the right, if I'm not mistaking. This means that no well-balanced work of art is flippable. An interesting experiment I've seen was flipping of some of major works of art. When flipped, they looked as if they were going to tip over to the left side.

Escushion · Post by **Escushion** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:35 pm

mcDuffies wrote:
Escushion wrote:Interesting comparison .

Anyway, I can't flip any of my artwork really because of this thing with my hand that causes it to be drawn so it'll look weird flipped. Instead I stretched her.
Incidentally, theory of perception says that the center of balance of human eye is not strictly in the middle, but a bit to the right, if I'm not mistaking. This means that no well-balanced work of art is flippable. An interesting experiment I've seen was flipping of some of major works of art. When flipped, they looked as if they were going to tip over to the left side.

Then I have this

.

When are new chans being accepted?

Jared · Post by **Jared** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:35 pm

And my contribution

Horror Genchan! The bloody comic genesis logo was origionally on her forehead instead of her boots, then I checked the rules and decided self mutilation might not be G rated.

Any comments on further possible improvals would be appreciated.

Snails · Post by **Snails** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:39 pm

War · Post by **War** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:16 am

Does a comic have to have been updated within 7 days for a genchan to show up? Because I thought the genchans were just going to be site decoration showing off what people of keenspace can do. I didn't think they would link to anything, and they're not really showing the best of keenspace currently.

Jared · Post by **Jared** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:24 am

I don't think they really have to show the best of comicgenesis. Not just any old thing should be let on, but in all honesty this is primarily a site for ametures and I don't see any problem with more simple works being shown.
But then again I wouldn't.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:36 am

War wrote:Does a comic have to have been updated within 7 days for a genchan to show up? Because I thought the genchans were just going to be site decoration showing off what people of keenspace can do. I didn't think they would link to anything, and they're not really showing the best of keenspace currently.

Most people probably wouldn't think they *are* links. They don't look like them.

My original idea was that the first pog would be reserved for the current Genchan artist. I thought that was logical and fair but it's a refinement and doesn't need to be done for, oh, months.

And I'm not sure it can easily be done, either, not being much good on that side of things.

Edit: Oh yes, I agree with you, too. We've gotta keep your's, Humbug's and Starline's in circulation (to name three off the top of my head).

- Joel Fagin

ShineDog · Post by **ShineDog** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:56 am

i think a fairly stringent quality control is required, to be honest. keenspace has a reputation for being.... well...

look, when people talk about us being amateur, they arent complimenting us.

wars looks GOOD. it makes the community as a whole GOOD. but its not there because he isnt updating.

Mo · Post by Mo » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:58 am

I'm inclined to agree with War - I think the genchans should show the best of Comicgenesis, and some of the very best CG comics update less than weekly.

I don't think they really have to show the best of comicgenesis. Not just any old thing should be let on, but in all honesty this is primarily a site for ametures and I don't see any problem with more simple works being shown.

You make it sound like comicgenesis = mostly amateurish stuff lacking sense for quality and professionality; yeah, that IS true, and that's how the rest of the webcomicking community sees us anyway. However, the frontpage is our primary marketing device and its aim should be to give a good impression and not to confirm negative presumptions and prejudice. (Yes, I'm calling it "marketing": even if we don't "sell" anything, we do provide a product, we do have a target group - the readers - and we do have an image, so none of that "We're just some buddies who want to have fun so never mind what others think" - it's that kind of attitude that leads to a bad image.)

The genchan should therefor serve the good of the community as a whole and not just be a promotion-device for individual artists, in my opinion. Because there are still people who have never read any webcomics, and when they stumble upon the comicgenesis main site, we want them to think "Hey, this looks cool!" and stick around.

My point being: if some of our best artists provide great looking genchans for the frontpage, we should happily use those genchans no matter if they update regularly; I'm thinking of people like War, Humbug, Mr. Bob etc.

I haven't read through this entire thread, but I wonder how quality control for the genchans is handled.

Edit: And just as I was to submit, ShineDog said just what I meant but with less words and more accuracy. I'm not good at being blunt.

Jeffy · Post by **Jeffy** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:05 am

I agree with the people who say that there should be more quality control, and for the same reasons.

Don't think that aside from the pogs the front page should be for individual comic promotion, but for Comic Genesis promotion

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:10 am

Cookie Reinforcement wrote: However, the frontpage is our primary marketing device.

The genchan should therefor serve the good of the community as a whole and not just be a promotion-device for individual artists, in my opinion.

This is the kicker - and I agree.
Jeffy said something in chat - perhaps this would be an option. If the link to the artist's comic were to... not exist... perhaps it would reduce the amount of people seeing it as a way to promote their own stuff.

That said - I really wish there was a way to either retract a submission, or over-ride it. ... I think I just restated what other people already said... oops.

Edit: ugh. Jeffy posted what I meant more concisely while I was typing ^^

Jeffy · Post by **Jeffy** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:13 am

yay for sneaky Jeffy's! *hugs himself*

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:13 am

Cookie Reinforcement wrote:I haven't read through this entire thread, but I wonder how quality control for the genchans is handled.

I don't believe it is yet although it will be - if only to make sure the rules are followed and we don't get, um, shall we say, Ghastly-esque versions.

I think Cgen as a whole and the site specifically would benefit from having quality control on the Chans but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out my ego is tied into the website.*

- Joel Fagin

* Which is why I've steadfastly refused to bring it up even though it has been bothering me.

Jedster · Post by **Jedster** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:26 am

There is a major problem with restricting the chans though.

Some comics may have excellent writing but the art is not what many people would class as top-notch. Then what about those comics that may have excellent art, but the writing is appauling? Who are we to judge what another reader interprets? By putting only excellent art on the front page, we could be lulling potential readers into reading something appauling and drive them away (I am in no way suggesting anyone's art or writing IS appauling!).

If you're going to limit the chans the link to the originating site the chan links to wants removing, otherwise those that aren't allowed a chan will feel hard-done by. It also stops the art vs. writing problems that may occur as it is purely a showcase for art.

It's all very complicated, because the cream of the crop wants promoting, yet this is a service for the masses, to allow anyone to release their imagination on the rest of the world, so why shouldn't they be allowed the promotional device to do so?

Mo · Post by Mo » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:39 am

Jedster wrote:There is a major problem with restricting the chans though.

Some comics may have excellent writing but the art is not what many people would class as top-notch. Then what about those comics that may have excellent art, but the writing is appauling? Who are we to judge what another reader interprets? By putting only excellent art on the front page, we could be lulling potential readers into reading something appauling and drive them away (I am in no way suggesting anyone's art or writing IS appauling!).

If you're going to limit the chans the link to the originating site the chan links to wants removing, otherwise those that aren't allowed a chan will feel hard-done by. It also stops the art vs. writing problems that may occur as it is purely a showcase for art.

It's all very complicated, because the cream of the crop wants promoting, yet this is a service for the masses, to allow anyone to release their imagination on the rest of the world, so why shouldn't they be allowed the promotional device to do so?

You can't very well show off good writing in a frontpage design now, can you?

Anyway, my point was that the chan should NOT be a promotional device for individual comics, but for ComicGen as a whole. That way, no one would feel "oppressed" by the "cream of the crop", since they would not gain anything from the genchan for themselves - other than the pleasure of making ComicGen look good. The pogs are for self-promotion and should be enough.

(And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't think of herself as "cream of the crop", and if there was stricter quality control as I think there should be, I would accept it if they rejected the genchan I will submit - of course I wouldn't be particularly happy about it, but decorating a big part of a huge community's front page should be an honour that must be deserved, not a right any given artist should take for granted. Again, in my humble opinion.)

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:40 am

Thus, removing the link.

- again, the way i see it the idea is to promote comic genesis, not the individual artists

Jeffy · Post by **Jeffy** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:45 am

indeed, i'm gonna toss a submission in there since i finished my latest comic, and the only thing getting rejected for quality would make me think is, "okay, time to learn to draw better"

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:00 am

Actually, I should point out that there was one stick figure Chan* for the test site which actually looked very good and worked well, so you can still get away with primitive styles if that happens to be your forte.

- Joel Fagin

* I forget whose. Sorry. A forum regular, though. I can visualise their banner but just can't remember which name it goes under.

Mo · Post by Mo » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:03 am

pierce studios wrote:- again, the way i see it the idea is to promote comic genesis, not the individual artists

Yes.

The phrase "professional thinking" comes to mind. It's fine that CG is open for anyone and everyone, but no artist with a tint of self-respect desires to be part of a community that has "mediocre to bad art" written all over its frontpage, no matter what he himself is capable of.

And Joel is also right - a qualitative GOOD chan can still be drawn in a simple style.

Of course the question pops up, if quality control was to be dealt with on a more critical level, would that be something the admins would take care of? Seeing as they're tech geniuses more than anything, and this falls more into the "art" department... not meaning to step on any toes, by all means.

A small committee of capable and unbiased volunteers could be appointed together by admins / mods.

But then, it all depends on what the admins think about the quality control.