the cross-burning thread

Vedius Pollio · Post by **Vedius Pollio** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:38 am

vote!

Wipperwill · Post by **Wipperwill** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:54 am

Saying one ethic group ALL speak the same or act the same is showing some massive ignorance. There are lots of blacks in america that cant stand ebonics or rap culture for example. Tay Zonday anyone? Chris rock? Tiger Woods? Obama?

I've been in the navy for 18 years, visited dozenes of other countries and thier cultures. You know what I found? People in Ireland, Greece, Singapore, Australian, the carribean all want the same things! A good fuck, someone to snuggle with, fine drink and food, to laugh, and sometimes yes, to cry.

It pains me to see people on this board acting in the same way that others do, with intolerance and shame. Why are you here if you dont like the odd and the quirky?

-wip

Aeridus · Post by **Aeridus** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:29 am

Mmm, snuggles.

But yeah, I stick with the sentiment that every culture can teach you something new. Even if once in a while it's just to serve as a bad example.

Leeches, anyone?

In all seriousness, I've always wondered why there were huge gaps in history textbooks pertaining to other cultures; they mostly fixated on a few major cultures and then just what happened in Europe and America for the past 2000 years.

Swordsman3003 · Post by **Swordsman3003** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:16 pm

art is bullshit.

Orwell · Post by **Orwell** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:49 pm

I saw the title and got so excited I nailed a effegy of capitalism to a cross and burned it, only to realize it's a art thread.

Bustertheclown · Post by **Bustertheclown** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:38 pm

swordsman3003 wrote:art is bullshit.

Maybe YOUR art is bullshit, buy MY art is the shitting bull itself. Think about it. It'll blow your mind.

Xero · Post by **Xero** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:01 pm

bustertheclown wrote:
swordsman3003 wrote:art is bullshit.
Maybe YOUR art is bullshit, buy MY art is the shitting bull itself. Think about it. It'll blow your mind.

when you see it
you'll shit bricks

Lulujayne · Post by **Lulujayne** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:48 pm

I agree with Whipperwill.

Vedius Pollio · Post by **Vedius Pollio** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:45 pm

Wipperwill wrote:Saying one ethic group ALL speak the same or act the same is showing some massive ignorance. There are lots of blacks in america that cant stand ebonics or rap culture for example. Tay Zonday anyone? Chris rock? Tiger Woods? Obama?

I've been in the navy for 18 years, visited dozenes of other countries and thier cultures. You know what I found? People in Ireland, Greece, Singapore, Australian, the carribean all want the same things! A good fuck, someone to snuggle with, fine drink and food, to laugh, and sometimes yes, to cry.

It pains me to see people on this board acting in the same way that others do, with intolerance and shame. Why are you here if you dont like the odd and the quirky?

-wip

Ok, maybe I asked the wrong question.

Is Kwaanza (or ebonics) bullshit? (This is a relevant question because there are a lot of linguists who claim that ebonics should be treated as a legitimate language, just like French, Latin, and Japanese.)

According to some linguists, "do you dig" and "jazz" and "jive" are loanwords from some African language. I wonder if they really are, or if the linguists involved just looked at some African wordlists and said: "This word bears a slight resemblance to modern-day ghetto slang. Let's claim that ghetto slang is actually more ancient and venerable than it really is."

My current opinion is as follows:

1. African Americans and Aborigines have had their original culture stripped from them. By this, I mean that the current delinquency of these people is due to white interference (by enslaving them, etc.)

2. However, attempts are being made to celebrate this degradation rather than repair it. (i.e., through celebrations of poor English and handing token laurels to bad poets and weak artists.)

3. Now, by making black people proud of what white society turned them into, Kwaanza is really only fostering complacency.

ManaUser · Post by **ManaUser** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:07 pm

I think the argument goes, that "Ebonics", or Black English isn't just poor English, it has its own rules and vocabulary so if both people know it, it works fine. I wouldn't personally call it a separate language, but it's obviously a distinct dialect.

Doogitus · Post by **Doogitus** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:05 am

I choose the "learn from each other" nice and friendly option, but upon further reflection I'd have to pick one of the "no" answers, because of the (and emulate) clause. Personally I have a sort of middle position between an extreme relativism and claims to objective measures of quality or greatness in art. I think you can get meaningful evaluations in a definite way, but only once you've agreed on a set of values, and those are subjective. Elsewhere the quote was mentioned, "When the Zulu produce a Tolstoy, I will read him." Perhaps they're just not interested in a Tolstoy, but if you're looking for oral epic, you can find poets who will rank with Homer (perhaps not in Zulu specifically, I am much less familiar with African poetry, but as I understand it the oral tradition is still quite active there). And while I can dig an intense Russian novel time to time, epic is for me. So, I think it is important to appreciate what other people are up to with their sets of values, and how they go about achieving their desired effects, but I don't think it's necessary to adopt someone else's. I get that in my pottery all the time - there are lots of potters who are much more talented than I am in terms of what they are capable of producing, but I prefer my work because it suits my aesthetic. And this is fine, mine is the only aesthetic I really need to suit (until I try to sell something). So, I do stand by the learning, because being aware of different values is beneficial, but I don't think there's a need to adopt or emulate them.

Orwell · Post by **Orwell** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:22 am

On the Ebonics thing, I don't really care what they want to call it, slang or a distinct dialect or even a full language, here in the US we speak ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKERS. I don't really care if two people converse in a native language to them, but when your addressing someone you don't know, or speaking to a diverse group, please, use english.

Foolosophy · Post by **Foolosophy** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:34 am

orwell wrote:please, use english.

yeah...because there are not ... like... at least four or five different STANDARD Englishes around, eh?

Lulujayne · Post by **Lulujayne** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:39 am

I beg to differ, Foolosophy, there is only one English, and that is The Queen's English. However, seeing as none of us speak it I do declare this thread to be full of savage babble and therefore not worth the 1's and 0's it is printed in.

Foolosophy · Post by **Foolosophy** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:17 am

Lulujayne wrote:I beg to differ, Foolosophy, there is only one English, and that is The Queen's English. However, seeing as none of us speak it I do declare this thread to be full of savage babble and therefore not worth the 1's and 0's it is printed in.

I have to bow before your superior use of logic and will withdraw my previous statement and claim the opposite

WangyJohn · Post by **WangyJohn** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:59 am

Point I want to make on Ebonics:

Why should it be considered in any way less english than aussie english, cocney, creole english, or american english?

Foolosophy · Post by **Foolosophy** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:22 am

A language is a dialect with an army and navy

lolcats need some armed forces and a random political system ASAP!

Xero · Post by **Xero** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:49 pm

WangyJohn wrote:Point I want to make on Ebonics:

Why should it be considered in any way less english than aussie english, cocney, creole english, or american english?

because everyone can understand it still
ebonics, is very regional and oft they can't even talk to each other with it, let along generic normal english speakers

Detective Clem · Post by **Detective Clem** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:43 pm

Xero wrote:
WangyJohn wrote:Point I want to make on Ebonics:

Why should it be considered in any way less english than aussie english, cocney, creole english, or american english?
because everyone can understand it still
ebonics, is very regional and oft they can't even talk to each other with it, let along generic normal english speakers

Have you ever watched someone from northern Belize try to converse with someone from southern Belize in Creole? Because they can't, and resort to English. In other news, I speak fluent Ebonics, motherfucker, and people from The Bay to Brooklyn understand one another. Also, Creole and Pidgin should not be considered "English" any more than English should be considered German. Each has it's own distinct influences in grammar and vocabulary from other languages, much as English takes massive influences from Norman French.

Swordsman3003 · Post by **Swordsman3003** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:04 pm

Foolosophy wrote:
Lulujayne wrote:I beg to differ, Foolosophy, there is only one English, and that is The Queen's English. However, seeing as none of us speak it I do declare this thread to be full of savage babble and therefore not worth the 1's and 0's it is printed in.
I have to bow before your superior use of logic and will withdraw my previous statement and claim the opposite

Linguistics will teach you that there's really so such thing as any one language, but rather that languages fall into vague, almost subjective groups.

WHAT AM I SAYING? I am a real stickler for properness.

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