Your financial situation?

[Halo299]

ok. a bit of personal history.

about a year or two ago, i decided to drop out of college and try to get a real job and start making money. can you see the problem with my logic?

I was amazed at the social seperation based on class i saw as soon as i stepped foot off campus. I had never noticed before just how imposible it is to even come close to supporting yourself without conections, a degree, or more likly both. So i have spent the last year or so paying real close attention to the lifestyles and living conditions of the haves and the have-nots. and how they interact with each other. it is not a pretty picture once you get right down to it.

those people born into poverty have a snowballs chance in hell of ever getting out of poverty. but more unnerving than that is that those in poverty don't seem to understand that there is anything wrong with thier condition. It is like they simply can not understand that the world is bigger than the street they live on, or the factory they work at or the local social drama of what ever group they belong to. and all the while they are getting repeatedly shit on by the rest of sociaty.

i would like some opinions here.
I aready have a lot of ideas about this. but i want to see what every one else thinks. I might right a book on this some day it is that interesting to me. I'm back in school BTW

Has it aways been this way?

Will it aways be this way?

is there anything that can be done about it?

what role does income/class play in how a person in viewed?

-halo

[Squidflakes]

I was quite poor for a while, but I got off my ass, got a temp job, then talked my way in to the IT department at Nokia. I took that experience and ran with it, started contracting. Then I got in to professional IT work, and now I'm comfortable enough to know the difference between a traditional and Roth IRA.. course, that could be because I work for a financial company.

[Swordsman3003]

My grandparents came here with the clothes on their backs on my dad's side, my mom was on welfare. I remember being dirt poor.

However, my dad got promotion after promotion. He has 150,000+ salary now.

[Aeridus]

I'm $2800 in debt on my credit card, and I owe my dad a bunch too. ;P

I'm aiming for a better job so I can work more hours without going insane, though.

[Indigo Violent]

I voted "paycheck to paycheck" even though right now I don't get a paycheck, it being exam period and all.
However, I live with my parents, so I do have a very comfortable existence - I may not be able to afford to go out to dinner on a whim, but I'm definitely not going to starve or anything.

[Queenhank]

I don't even fit on that poll. I have no paycheck to begin with. I live off of the couple dollars I have left, while I try to find a job.

[UgghTheCaveman]

Halo, I think you're WAYYYYY off base...this country STILL has streets "paved with gold", but you gotta DIG for it!.

Rather than taking the offer of a neighbor (who owned a four star restaraunt in Belleview, WA, and was half owner of a rather famous one in Hong Kong) to take a free ride to the ACTUAL Cordon Bleu culinary school, or take mom and dad's offer of a free ride through college, when I graduated H.S> a bit early, I got parental consent waivers, and joined the Army...with a GUARENTEE, no less, for infantry, jump, dope-on-a-rope, and RIP (known as "Baby Rangers", because even though it is the same as Ranger School (outside of not offering the secondary MOS schools, which, if you succeed, and go on to a Ranger Batt, they will take care of for you), you are not eligible to wear the tab or pin until you have 6 months' active duty time with a Ranger qualified battalion or exercize group.

See...the thought process was, I was sick of mom and dad enforcing THEIR will on me constantly, and the Army seemed a way out of that...and besides, all that shit sounded cool as hell to be able to look back on and say "I done that" (and it IS as cool to remember as I thought it would be...and to brag on)


When I got out, as you can see, I basically had two job qualifications from my extensive Army training experiences...I could dig ditches, or I could shoot things (mostly people). Since I got out before turning 24, I wasn't eligable for the police acadamy most places I was interested in living in, so I turned to construction.

Didn't take me long to realize that roofing don't pay the bills well, if you like living well, but it CAN be a hell of a lot of fun if you and a gang of buddies make up an experienced crew that then just kind of bums around the country, "storm chasing", and keeping busy that way. Plumbing paid better, and had more future in it, but had a 4+ year apprenticeship program involved (I did my 8000 apprentice hours LEGALLY ihn under 30 months, but it takes a total of that many hours as an apprentice to qualify for the union rules for taking a journeyman's test.

So, I ended up short work one winter, caught in KS, where I'd been re-plumbing "Heritage Homes", and a buddy talked me into trying my hand as a car salesman...in my first month, between bonuses and commissions, I cleared $25K pre-tax...so I stayed. Most months weren't that good, some were better, but I was steadily a good salesman, so they made me a "Floor Manager" (guy who runs a team of salesmen, and closes the deals...sometimes known as a "Closer") before I'd been at it 18 months. A year after THAT, with my income STILL climbing, they made me a "Business Manager", and sent me to the state classess needed to pass the SEC7 and insurance liscense exams, on expense account. Now I was an "F&I man"..my first year was WELL into that top 10% of wage and salary earnings, according to the U.S. Census, and my BEST year was just under 3/4 of a million earned, with me havign to move alot, as I got headhunted by other stores, or flat decided I could CREATE a better deal for myself at a store that was busier than the one I was currently at had represented itself as being.


Then I realized I didn't l;ike myself, or what I was doing to people in order to put as much of THEIR money as possible into MY pocket.

Now, I own my home, and two new-ish used cars, a few "toys", have no debt, and am in school with a dual major:Applied Maths and Computer Science...before getting into my current school, I attended the local clown college long enough to get my A+, CCNA, CCNP, and NOVELL certs, too, and, back in the pipefitting days, I attended DeVry, and got their A.Sci. on Elect Tech (which turned out to be useless in the job market)


However...when I graduate, I expect to be quite the hot commodity...the code monkey who has documentation and certification showing he knows networks, networking hardware and interface, AND knows general hardware. If the felony bust I picked up on the way through all that (had to do with the timing of my leaving the car business...a felon can't hold an active insurance or SEC7 liscense until the felony is expunged) doesn't get in my way, I should have them beating paths to my door starting in about a year.

[Toawa]

Not voting in the poll, though I will say that connections help. I am rather annoyed at the common (from what I see; note that my source tends to be Careerbuilder/Monster type sites) tendency for tech companies to want people with industry experience, which you can only get by getting a job in the industry, which you can only get by having industry experience.

Or starting your own company, which is my current plan. Between days and nights of pizza delivery, I'm trying to rewrite the POS software that our store uses, because our current POS is a POS. (I feel obligated by my pride for my chosen trade to deck whoever wrote it, should I ever meet them.)

Additionally, at some point I hope to earn a commercial pilot's license, since I have an idea for a theme-airline of sorts. Of course, first I'll have to actually get the money to do so, which is a bit tricky.

[Squidflakes]

However...when I graduate, I expect to be quite the hot commodity...the code monkey who has documentation and certification showing he knows networks, networking hardware and interface, AND knows general hardware. If the felony bust I picked up on the way through all that (had to do with the timing of my leaving the car business...a felon can't hold an active insurance or SEC7 liscense until the felony is expunged) doesn't get in my way, I should have them beating paths to my door starting in about a year.

Not to downgrade your expectations or anything, but a code monkey who knows networks isn't anything unsual in the IT industry. You need to sell yourself as more than that. Having been a car salesman, I'm sure you'll have no problem in the interview, but keep in mind that in coding its experience that counts, not college. Those certs you have, I know kids in highschool who get those just from showing up to class (I shit you not, my old high school now has a computer course that gets you your A+, Network+, CCNA, CCNP, and MCSE), so don't count on them to get you any jobs.

IT isn't the place to be anymore. During the bubble, every Tom with a hairy dick who could even spell computer was pulling down 100k, but people got smart to our little scheme and good IT jobs are, again, hard to find.

The areas you want to start getting a little knowledge in: Security, both physical and network. Storage, Back-ups, and Data Retention. Financial and Insurance coding.

DO NOT make the mistake of thinking that just because you can speak a little Perl or C++ that you're in demand. Coding jobs are going overseas faster than you can say outsourcing.

You've picked a tough row to hoe sir, and I wish you luck.

[UgghTheCaveman]

Squiddy, the part I think will make me a hot commodity is in the contractor's arena...the ET A.Sci.

A coder/IT guy who knows hatrdware, and can on-the-fly wire up and interface hardware not originally intended for computer bossing is gonna be in demand.


As an example...I made a controller for my CS (counterstrike) gaming using an old 5 button mouse that had broken, a busted BB gun, a trackball mouse (3 button), and a piece of 1" steel dowell, and a few other bits and pieces.....I'd log into game, use the "tuning buttons" to line the scope up on the crosshairs in game, and from there on forward, I played CS as if I was at an arcade playing one of those "realistic sniper" games.


With a bit of work, and scrap metal, I made a buddy a "pilot's chair" for a hijacked copy of the Apache flight simulator program he was trained on (he set up the multimonitor for it himself).


THAT is what I think will make me a hot commodity...not just being able to code or knowing IT...knowing electronics on top of it, and having proof...and I'm not intending to work for companies like EAGames or the others who are outsourcing like mad, but, instead, to work a couple years for a contracting company (preferably in Nevada area, where I can put all this to use in hotel/casino/resort arena long enough to gain a reputation), then spend a couple more years running my OWN company doing specialized work...THEN I will either retire to what I REALLY want to do for a living, or go back to the car game, or stay where I am, depending on money situation....I need to be in a money situation where I can live the lifestyle my wife wants, AND put three kids through college without hurting it, indefinately, PLUS have the $250K it'd take to start my "dream business" before the wife will give me permission to try it...right now, we can maintain the lifestyle a bit below what she wants indefinately, so basically, I have to arrange to make a mint in a few short years as a specialist shortly after graduating, or go back to the car game, in order to increase my net worth to where I need it to be to do that...but it IS doable within the next 8 years (when my first one graduates).

[Squidflakes]

Again, I'm going to tell you not to set your expectations too high. Not because I think you can't do it, but because I've seen too many people get marginilized before they really had a chance to get up and running.

You ARE fully correct with your take on the Nevada area. The gaming companies are pumping out slot machines like crazy, and every casino is always looking for the gimmick of the hour. Being able to make mock-ups and demo models is probably going to be your bread and butter. Further, knowing how to shoe-horn a TCP/IP stack in there somewhere is going to be handy as well.

I'd definately be interested to see where you are in 5 years.

[Nithos]

I come from a lower-middle class family that's moved up a bit in the last few years, thank god. I'm still on the ground floor of the job market, doing minimum wage things, just finished up at community college looking to get junior standing for a four year degree, and serving in the army reserves. At the moment, I don't even qualify as paycheck to paycheck, as my paycheck won't even cover rent until my roommates-to-be move in. My parents are keeping me afloat for the time, which frankly is embarassing, but better than the alternatives. From what I can see, jobs are still around, and if you are just chasing a paycheck, some well paid ones around, the difficulty seems to be that it takes a lot of money to start making any money at all. If you don't have parents and/or the military to cover the costs of school, or already have enough years of work experiance under your belt to go back later in life, I don't see how someone could hope to just work their way through school without already having a degree to get a job that could get you through school... but that's me, I lack ambition and drive, I just want a nice science geek job that'll keep me clothed, sheltered, and able to afford enough beer to keep my brain quiet at home

[Major Maxillary]

I have a fully-stocked pantry, a warm, dry place to sleep, A roof over my head held up by four walls, Broadband, and TV. I make enough to keep things this way, and I've never been in debt.


My goals in life are to live compfortably and to start a new nation in my warped image.

[Goddessmisca]

I'm a college student.

12k in debt right now, making about 6k a year work study most of which goes back to my college.

Yea I = broke ass.

Unfortunately I have no clue what I'm gonna do in a year when I graduate

[Honor]

Six words... "Who wants to marry a Hundredaire?"

I have college debts, credit card debts, and personal loans. But, it looks like I might be offered a job I'd like, so I might slow down college and do that. it'd only start at 40k a year, but I can deal with that.

And Ugg, dude, you're wrong... Both in analogy and fact. If the streets are "paved" with gold, then you don't by definition, have to dig for it. There is still opportunity and upward mobility possible in the US but the odds are against you. (generic "you", not you.) A person boorn poor in the US is statistically much more likely th remain poor than a person born poor in Canada or Europe (or, if I rmember correctly, Japan or even China).

[Sweet or Sour]

While I certainly am not rich, and will never make ‘caveman money’[likely], what is likely a very unhealthy aversion to money in general means I live well below that which I am capable of. Does earning money comparable to the bottom of the ‘upper class’, but living as if in the middle of the ‘lower class,’ make you the bottom top or the top bottom, or just unbalanced. In either case, I can tell you what it doesn’t make you, and that is desirable by the upper class. Upward mobility is very difficult in this country, but downward mobility is a breeze.

[Ce6]

I think I personally qualify as "upper middle class," but I'm not really sure what that entails as far as income ranges and expected lifestyles go. I don't feel like I live an "upper middle class" lifestyle, nor do I really want to. I make more than enough money to cover my bills, but I also keep most of my required expenses low. Part of it I guess comes from being raised "lower middle class" - my parents have worked their entire lives in retail, and while it pays the bills for them, it doesn't leave piles of money around to burn.
I managed to get where I am by getting lucky and being persistent with school -- wrangled over half my tuition in scholarships and got loans for the rest, then in senior year hit the interview circuit like mad (got me a software engineering gig at a major US corporation in spring of 2000 and have been dodging layoffs ever since)
While I was able to pull myself up a tax bracket or two, it wasn't fast or clear that it would happen, especially with absolutely no contacts to help get me in anywhere.
Right now I'm just trying to get enough actual programming experience under my belt so I can be employable elsewhere as something other than a tester/customer support engineer when I eventually do get the axe (my department is looking less and less stable every week, if I don't want to move to Poland or maybe Arizona there's not much in the way of long-term prospects)

[UgghTheCaveman]

You ARE fully correct with your take on the Nevada area. The gaming companies are pumping out slot machines like crazy, and every casino is always looking for the gimmick of the hour. Being able to make mock-ups and demo models is probably going to be your bread and butter. Further, knowing how to shoe-horn a TCP/IP stack in there somewhere is going to be handy as well.

I'd definately be interested to see where you are in 5 years.

I wasd thinking more along the lines of more and more of the "one armed bandit" machines are computerized and networked together, plus the oppertunities to maybe see what I could do with the secuirty systems, hotel/resort DBs, so on, and so forth, for keeping me busy.

[LindaH]

dirt poor, berely able to pay the bills if i eat just boiled pasta a few times a month. ah the wonders of undemployment.

but i am rich where it counts, as i got my Matt

[Honor]

Does earning money comparable to the bottom of the ‘upper class’, but living as if in the middle of the ‘lower class,’ make you the bottom top or the top bottom, or just unbalanced. In either case, I can tell you what it doesn’t make you, and that is desirable by the upper class. Upward mobility is very difficult in this country, but downward mobility is a breeze.

Just as a side note... The bottom of the upper class don't really "earn" their money in the same sense that the middle class does... It's more like ROI. Does anything the CEO of The VeryLarge Corporation of America does actually amount to "earning" his $124Million in annual salary and bonuses, or is it more of a cumulative benefit of her experience, position, and connections?

Upper class is outright rich. Not "very successful doctor or lawyer" rich, but rich. Lower-upper class is usually "new money" and upper-upper class tends to be "old money". "Very successful doctor or lawyer" rich is upper-middle class.