tellner wrote:To which I can only say "Speak for yourself" and "Stop projecting your own issues on those who do not share them." If you can not conceive of religious people who do not fit your stereotype it is your limitation, not theirs.
There's simply no realistic alternative, tellner... S/He used an overly specific causative, which I might not have done, but the fact remains... Religion is either a coping mechanism, indoctrinated behaviour, or intellectual dishonesty engaged in for other reasons. (those who claim to beleive for one or more reasons, but don't in fact.) Since I'm the exhaustive and authoritative bitch, I'll enumerate them more completely.
The single greatest moment in any of the Star Trek franchises, and by extension, one of the greatest moments in television history, takes place when Riker and Picard are discussing a primitive culture. Riker illustrates just how primitive they are by pointing out that they still believe in god and still have religion. I cling to the unreasonable hope that we, as a species, will outgrow religious faith at some point, but I'm not holding my breath... I don't actually give it even odds of ever happening, universally.
There are now, and I expect always will be, people who simply are not... I hesitate to use terms like 'strong', 'brave', or 'intelligent', because there are people of faith who are plenty of all three... But whatever quality it is that allows a person to stand, cold and alone, on the stark rock of truth and brazenly stare down the universe on equal terms is simply lacking in some people. Those are some of the people who always will need some system of faith.
There is also that quality of humans that is held over from our pack-like ancestry... In the vast majority of us, it's deeply discomforting to be alone. In a lovely anagramatic twist of fate, modern man has gods partially for the same reasons that they have dogs.
There are people who have religious faith for an extension of the same reason that some people have stamp collections or model train sets... They just really need something to fiddle with, even if the need is partially or even mostly subconcious.
There are the joiners. I distinguish these from the "I don't want to be alone" category above, because it's the companionship and approval of the congregation they crave, rather than that of a god.
The others, of course, fall in less savory categories. To be sure... There
are also people who are not smart enough, or not strong enough, or not brave enough to do without it. There are people who lack the ethical judgement or self restraint to act morally without imagining an intervening power. There are some who were born weak, some made weak by upbringing, and some weakened by some trauma... But whatever the cause, they are too weak to make it alone.
There are those who are religious due to indoctrination. They were raised with this bullshit from the earliest age, with varying degrees of intellectual, emotional, and physical violence, and it "took" so well that no realistic amount of education alone is going to break the strangle-hold of the violent fictional view they have of reality. This is child abuse, plain and simple. It's vile and reprehensible and evil and I wish there was some way to end it abruptly without destroying other parts of the familial relationship that are needed and good. Just like any other form of child abuse, some few will outgrow it in time, mostly anyway... But others, and far too many, will grow up to perpetuate the cycle of abuse... And like other forms of abuse, it seems to get worse in some cases, generation after generation. Which segue's nicely to the last category...
Lastly, there are the most evil ones... Those who only claim (or, more rarely, genuinely have) religious faith as a means to control, dominate, influence, and/or judge others. This variety can range from the evangelical preacher who's only real concern is for the money, to another evangelical preacher who's more interested in the powermadness, to a lonely and embittered old woman who thrives like cancer on the violent disapproval of all she dislikes, fears, or does not understand.
The eastern and/or more metaphysical religions are just a better mousetrap... There is no shortage of people who are too smart for christianity, islam, or even judaism, but still need the drug, so they turn to something less easy to disprove (*ghetto mamma voice* ...that's right, I said it.). neo-paganism brands like wicca fall into this category (please, everyone have the self respect not to fire back the claim that I said all wiccans are intelligent. I said, say, mean, and think nothing of the sort.) as do a great many of our modern rush on what we might call "enlightened white boy religions"... bhuddism, yoga, hinduism, moral veganism, sihkism, sockism, FSMism, whatever. Though, to be fair, in the modern episode of this game, us girls beat you there in significant numbers... The originals were folks like many of our (american) founding fathers... Too smart to be christians, but not quite sophisticated enough to go it alone. Deism and Agnosticism were their better moustraps of choice... "Yeah, there is a creator, probably, but it's unknowable, and it doesn't meddle in human affairs."
It all goes back to the core causes listed above... But the "new" (to us) models don't carry the same drawbacks as the old. They're kinder, smarter, more sustainable. This market pressure is felt in the local brands as well... notice how much friendlier and loving jesus got in the sixties and seventies, and by contrast, how much more pissed off he is just now.
I'll repeat the analogy of the teapot (known on the intarwebs as an Invisible Pink Unicorn) for those who didn't or couldn't listen to the audio. If I say there is a delicate porceline teapot orbiting the sun, somewhere inside the orbit of Mercury... I can't prove it, and you can't disprove it. It's far too small for telescopes to see, and the glare of the sun would just make seeing it that much more difficult. But the fact that you can't disprove my teapot theory doesn't mean you are obligated to pay it any attention, argue against it, disprove it, or give it any intellectual weight of validity at all.
The mere fact that now there have been millions of millions of people preaching, writing, meditating, singing, dancing, proselytizing, praying, and building monuments to the teapot for generations now doesn't make it one. iota. more. valid. No matter how much you have emotionally invested in your teapot, it's still a made up thing with not logically conceivable basis in reality.
The important thing here is to disabuse ourselves of the notion that other's belief in god or gods deserves the slightest shred of respect or tolerance for any logical or intellectual reason... It doesn't. It only deserves a degree of tolerance for humanitarian reasons, and that should carry the same weight as our tolerance of any other harmless, functional delusion... Once it ceaces to be harmless, it becomes a mental illness, and must be treated, because of it's risk to society.
Religious faith is an "evil" on the same order of magnitude as morphine... Sometimes, some people genuinely need it, and used properly, it can be of great benefit to them, and by extension, to society as a whole. Misused, it becomes dangerous and deadly, and imperils society as a whole. Because some people genuinely need it, it would be cruel to take it away from them entirely... But there's -got- to be some way to control it... Keep it in check.
If, for instance, your religious faith tells you it's ok to hurt other people for religious reasons alone (not self defense, not to defend your property or family, in other words, but because god said so)... Ever. Under any circumstances. Then your "religion" is outside what our protection of religious freedom safeguards... People like that, harsh as it sounds, should be put to sleep. There's no other way that works out as well. This is long enough as it is, so I won't go into the hows and whys just now... But people who believe their god gives them the right or responsibility to judge, attack, harm, or enslave others should be killed for the good of human society. Plain and simple.
