Second Base(24 Nov '06)

[Alfador]

When I was really little, I used to yank on my left nipple. A few years later, I started pushing my right nipple like a button as well. By elementary school, the disparity was nothing short of astounding.

...No, I don't do that any more. And they've pretty much gone back to equality.

...I just thought I'd share that.

[Candide]

<i>Thank</i> you, DetailBear.

Indeed.

And might I (as the other "adult" queer-gentleman here) add that gay men do like having their chest & torso played with, beyond just nipples. The chest ... sides of the torso ... the lower back ... all of these can be quite (ahem) fun.

Calling men unfortunate for being men does not sit well with me. For someone who was driven to make that sort of switch, <i>of course</i> it's better on the other side. For that person.

Male sexuality is different than female. Calling it "worse" or "better" is a low blow.

One thing to add here:

I've been on other forums with enlightened men (of any sexuality) where some post or other makes comments that cast male sexuality or male behavior as "worse than" the female equivalent. The response from the men always seems to be, "I'mSorry!I'mSorry!I'mSorry!I'mSorry! Pleeeeease don't hate me because I have teh eeevil testosterone!"

What bothers me is not only the tacit acceptance that "testosterone == bad" in both the comment and the response, but the abuse of an ally.

Remember: "Warrior" can be "person who invades, kills, rapes, and pillages," but it is also, "Protector. Defender. Battles against monsters." The two are not one in the same, but a personal choice of how he uses that fire-energy which is maleness.

[Allan_ecker]

Oh hear HEAR.

Testosterone is a hormone with great danger AND power. I look around and I see a lot of guys who have discovered its power but remain ignorant to the trouble it's causing them and others, and other men who, intensely afraid of its dangers have all but mentally castrated themselves.

I myself have had some serious gender misanthropy issues in the past on which I am still working. But these days I am confident that I am at least beginning to "walk the walk," enjoying my masculinity, my warrior hero side, without letting it befog my mind. WHICH IT SURE CAN, as any man who's ever whipped his head around at a nice piece of ass knows.

Reguardless of said ass's gender in my case

[Catsby]

But these days I am confident that I am at least beginning to "walk the walk," enjoying my masculinity, my warrior hero side, without letting it befog my mind. WHICH IT SURE CAN, as any man who's ever whipped his head around at a nice piece of ass knows.

Reguardless of said ass's gender in my case

That's a nice piece of ass ass, Ted! Or horse... something like that. *mumbles*

When you said "ass", the rear end was only the second thing I thought of, my apologies...


I'm getting awfully random, please forgive me.

[Tetramorpheus]

::GRUMBLES::

At my school, there was a group of guys called "Men Against Violence Against Women" who were denied from marching in a women's month parade because one of the women in charge felt it would imply that they 'needed men to protect them'. While on some level the fact that the groups motto, "Our Strength is not for hurting" could be misconstrued as such, the fact that they were not even allowed to march behind the parade is one I find horribly unfair... if you're hoping for social change, how can you achieve it if at the same time you're divorcing yourself from the people who are on your side?

Then again... I have a surprizing number of male sexuality (or perhaps male gender, to use the anthropological vocabulary) issues for a happily gay man. Almost all of my reactions are feminine (though I am not particularly effeminate); how I deal with social pressures, group situations, etc. And these reactions are constantly used... and even reinforced... by my boyfriend and my friends.

This wouldn't be a problem, except for the fact that there is a large 'primeval male' side of me that it sometimes howling at how I'm treated, how I treat people, and occasionally feels emotional (although never physical) connections with female friends, perplexing for a gay man.

Sorry to dump all that oversharing... ... guess I've needed to say that for a while, and as implied above I don't think anyone here wants to hear it. If anyone wants that minute of their time back, I'll try to help you out once I nag Lu-Tze for a few LifeTimers

[Patchwork cat]

Whats' wrong with 'men need women to help them stop men from abusing women (or maybe people in general)' it's certainly true- men cannot live by mud and sweat lodges alone...

BTW- Lao Tzu will probably help you find all the time anyone needs

edit: BTW2- to the women who claim they have no testoterone- 'what??'

[Aki_no_kaze]

edit: BTW2- to the women who claim they have no testoterone- 'what??'

someone knows their endocrinology (the science of hormones and how they are produced)

edit: and to the men who claim they have no estrogen- 'what??'

[Tetramorpheus]

With not insubstantial irony... the only case I've heard of someone being immune to either hormone (ie, the only case where I've heard of someone who might be said to not have both hormones) was the episode of 'House' with psuedo-hermaphroditism... the supermodel who turned out to be genetically male, but whose body was immune to testosterone. and even then, I don't think it was that the body didn't produce it, but rather could not process it...

[Aki_no_kaze]

WARNING: this post contains talk about genitalia... read at your own risk








that eppisode was horribly innaccurate.

Androgen Insencitivity Syndrome (AIS) can happen to varrying degrees. From lvl 1 mild where it results in normal male genitalia, normal fertility and just a light puberty. from there, it gets more severe whereby the body becomes less and less masculine, the genitals become less "typical male" (often diagnosed as Intersexed and surgericlly alltered to have female genitalia at birth, regardless of the metnal gender of the child)

By lvl 7, or total AIS, the fetus does not respond at ALL to the androgens that change the stock female form into a male one. As such the child is born with totally female genitalia. Often the condition is not discovered untill either puberty (if menstration fails to occur) or durring firtility testing (AIS results in malformed overies that can not produce eggs).

Their bodies still produe Testosterone (it is part of the adrenal gland as well as the testies) but since they can not process it as well as normal, the effect is greatly reduced and their bodies are more female in appearence.


EDIT: it should be noted that AIS can, but not always, result in a female gender identity. Since androgens are required to change the stock female brain development to a male one, a reduced responce to those hormones can result in a female brain structure at birth. This is not always the case, as long as there is even a slight amount of responce to those hormones the brain can be structured as male if there is enough of them at the right time in fetal development. This can cause massive issues if the child is level 3-5 as they are often surgically altered to have "normal" female genitalia and never told of their intersexed past. Intersex is the medical term for when ones genitals are neither identifiably male nor female. This can be in the form of either missing testies/scrotum, a microphalis (phaic lenght of less then 3" while errect), abnormally shallow vagina, malformed labia or any combination thereof.

[Tetramorpheus]

To Patchwork Cat: I was refering to the Discworld Character (probably a parody of an original) and, well, I'm not sure I need THAT much time...

To Aki No Kaze: Thank you for the added info.

[Aki_no_kaze]

no worries Tetra I spent about the last 3 years researching this stuff, my shrink joked that I likely know more then the average med student on the subject of endocrinology

[Allan_ecker]

That was just as informative as all HELL, honestly, and really sufficiently clinical as to stay inside a PG rating (if that) if you ask me.

[Aki_no_kaze]

hormones are interesting things really, the stuff they can do when you have too much, or not enough, or the wrong type is truely stunning

[Aki_no_kaze]

...and really sufficiently clinical as to stay inside a PG rating (if that) if you ask me.

well, when you have over a years practice explaining this stuff to your own parents you need to learn how to keep the dirty bits out while still explaining your point

[Alfador]

<i>Thank</i> you, DetailBear.

Indeed.

And might I (as the other "adult" queer-gentleman here) add that gay men do like having their chest & torso played with, beyond just nipples. The chest ... sides of the torso ... the lower back ... all of these can be quite (ahem) fun.

As a bisexual male, I can tell you the same is true for me. I love being touched and snuggled. Murr! =^.^=

Remember: "Warrior" can be "person who invades, kills, rapes, and pillages," but it is also, "Protector. Defender. Battles against monsters." The two are not one in the same, but a personal choice of how he uses that fire-energy which is maleness.

And in whether you spec Fury or Protection in the talent trees. ;D

[Tetramorpheus]

And in whether you spec Fury or Protection in the talent trees. ;D

For that reference

Second, given the board, I keep reading 'Fury' with an extra 'r'. lol.

[Aki_no_kaze]

im glad i wasn't the only one

[Patchwork cat]

To Patchwork Cat: I was refering to the Discworld Character (probably a parody of an original) and, well, I'm not sure I need THAT much time...

heheh, my favourite book.
I have absorbed all I can about hormones etc. As I have multiple biological problems I try to understand all I encounter in many fields.

[Alfador]

And in whether you spec Fury or Protection in the talent trees. ;D

For that reference

Second, given the board, I keep reading 'Fury' with an extra 'r'. lol.

Well, Furry spec is for Druids, not Warriors. The new top-tier Mangle ability forced me to rearrange my feral hotbars.