Are there ANY Rikk/Alisin fans here besides me?

Red Viking · Post by **Red Viking** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:41 am

I've been lurking for awhile now and I've noticed that whenever discussions turn to the infamous Alisin/Rikk/Rumy love triangle, such as today's strip, people tend to heavily favor Rumy. I haven't seen very many Rikk/Alisin fans around here either.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rumy a lot. (Anyone who can single-handedly beat the crap out of a superhero is instantly cool in my book.) I was just wondering if I'm the only one who prefers the Rikk/Alisin pairing.

If so, I'll gladly take the position of the local oddity.

SteveB · Post by **SteveB** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 12:02 pm

First off, most people think Rikk and Rumiko have more in common, which really isn't quite as true as it seems on the surface.

Take the Christian thing. Rikk seems to be a committed Christian. Rumiko seems more "spiritually aligned" with him than Alisin does. Alisin seems depraved and deliberately sinful, but Alisin's depravity (which she herself exaggerates, and therefore so does everyone else) is based on negating the Christian principles she was brought up with. I don't mean her specific background -- I mean she was born and raised in a primarily Judeo-Christian culture.

Rumy wasn't. She is a Buddhist, or as she says she tries to be. It's a completely different way of looking at life than either Rikk's Christian or Alisin's anti-Christian point of view, and in many way's Alisin's antithesis is closer to Rikk's. And much of Alisin's negativity springs from her belief that God has cheated her. If she really becomes saved from her disease, and especially if Rikk has something to do with it, it's quite possible that she would turn her life around and become very Rikk-like.

(Of course, it's also possible that if that happened Rikk would find himself bored with her. It may be precisely because she's so much his opposite that he finds her attractive.)

I could go on, but I've been writing too many big posts lately. Just count me in as one who likes the Rikk/Alisin union.

Steve Bolhafner
Edit (if anybody cares): added two words accidentally left out of second sentence of second paragraph that made it say Rumy was spiritually aligned with Alisin, when of course I meant Rikk.

[ This Message was edited by: SteveB on 2002-04-05 13:41 ]

LordNicodareus · Post by **LordNicodareus** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 1:26 pm

Yeah, I am one who favors RikkAlisin. Rumy's cool, but Rikk needs a girl like Alisin to...whats the word...expand his horizons. Im sure Rikk and Rumy would be great together, but I myself have always beleived in the 80's pop somg..."Opposites Attract"

J. · Post by J. » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:12 pm

Hear, hear. 'Sin and Rikk form a much more exciting dynamic than Rumy and Rikk ever would - they're too levelheaded, too calm (except concerning each other...).

Funny thing is, I like Alisin, but as I looked back over the archives, it struck me - how different is she from Stu, really? I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit, but when you compare the things they've both said, and the ways they act... what makes Alisin so much better?

_________________
"We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time."
-- T.S. Eliot, Four Quartets

[ This Message was edited by: J. on 2002-04-05 14:16 ]

My name is Kenny · Post by **My name is Kenny** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:18 pm

On 2002-04-05 13:26, LordNicodareus wrote:
Yeah, I am one who favors RikkAlisin. Rumy's cool, but Rikk needs a girl like Alisin to...whats the word...expand his horizons. Im sure Rikk and Rumy would be great together, but I myself have always beleived in the 80's pop somg..."Opposites Attract"

Straight up, Nic. Crushes usually just don't work, and Rumy still kind of idealizes Rikk. I doubt it would work.

Aris Katsaris · Post by **Aris Katsaris** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:04 pm

On 2002-04-05 11:41, Red Viking wrote:
I've been lurking for awhile now and I've noticed that whenever discussions turn to the infamous Alisin/Rikk/Rumy love triangle, such as today's strip, people tend to heavily favor Rumy. I haven't seen very many Rikk/Alisin fans around here either.

Um... I'm having a bit difficulty understanding what this means. In the CRFH boards they talk about Dave/Margaret or Dave/Blue concerning what pairing they'd like to see happen.

But in a universe where Rikk is *already* married to Alisin, does being a Rikk/Rumy shipper mean that they'd like to see Rikk dump Alisin and go with Rumy? Or does it mean that they think he should have never married Alisin and gone with Rumy instead, but now things are done?

And what's the point of being a Rikk/Alisin shipper other than that you like seeing their already existing relationship and you want it to continue? I certainly don't want them to divorce or either of them to die, and I do enjoy seeing their dynamic so I suppose I'm a Rikk/Alisin shipper if I'm anything of the above.

Red Viking · Post by **Red Viking** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:18 pm

On 2002-04-05 14:12, J. wrote:
Funny thing is, I like Alisin, but as I looked back over the archives, it struck me - how different is she from Stu, really? I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit, but when you compare the things they've both said, and the ways they act... what makes Alisin so much better?

Because she's a badass with a coolness factor of a 1,000. Which means, people will like her even more when she does something morally questionable. Stu is neither cool, nor a badass, so people will despise him and fantasize about his slow and painful death.

I don't understand it either, that's just the way it is.

[ This Message was edited by: Red Viking on 2002-04-05 15:24 ]

Crazie Sunshine · Post by **Crazie Sunshine** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 6:23 pm

I am for the Rikk Alisin thing simply because it keeps things interesting.

Think about it. If Rikk and Rumy got together, they would be happy. They would be nice to each other in all ways (for the most part, anyway, right?) and neither of them would feel any pressure to change. Where's the conflict? The story would go kaput, like a sitcom when the leads FINALLY get married.

I do think that Rikk and Rumy ARE perfect for each other, but let's face it - perfect is boring.

Sunshine

[ This Message was edited by: Crazie Sunshine on 2002-04-05 18:24 ]

KingLeon · Post by **KingLeon** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 7:53 pm

We THINK they'd be good for each other, like best friends trying to two people up on a date. We don't actually know. Heck, I'd just like to see it happen just to see HOW they would be...

FlyingFish · Post by **FlyingFish** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 8:24 pm

On 2002-04-05 13:26, LordNicodareus wrote:
...I myself have always believed in the 80's pop song..."Opposites Attract"

Or "Opposite Ends Meet"?

I'm an R&R shipper for three reasons:

First, I started off fully believing that Alisin was bad news for Rikk. I figured that she'd drag him down morally, spiritually, and mentally. To Rikk's credit, that hasn't been the case; for the most part, he's been pulling her up. So I guess that's no longer a valid reason, but the initial resistance to the idea is still hanging around.

Second, I feel bad for Rumy. She's been interested in Rikk for ages but never had the guts to tell him, and suddenly she finds he's been taken away by someone who initially considered Rikk a fling (and went from 0 to "til death do us part" before she could react!) And the guy's just too dense to figure it out. As someone who's also been left by the wayside for not reacting fast enough, I can identify with her.

Third, I also happen to identify with Rikk. Heavily. And of the two women in his life, I prefer Rumy. QED. (Yeah, dumb reason, but isn't that how most 'shippers work in the end?)

That said, I have no problems with those who prefer Rikk and Alisin together, and I'm a too strong a believer in marriage vows to support the idea of Rikk actually ditching Alisin anyway. But that doesn't mean I can't dream.

On 2002-04-05 12:02, SteveB wrote:
Take the Christian thing. Rikk seems to be a committed Christian. Rumiko seems more "spiritually aligned" with him than Alisin does. Alisin seems depraved and deliberately sinful, but Alisin's depravity (which she herself exaggerates, and therefore so does everyone else) is based on negating the Christian principles she was brought up with. I don't mean her specific background -- I mean she was born and raised in a primarily Judeo-Christian culture.

Well, yes and no. Buddha has nothing direct to say on Jesus, and Jesus has nothing direct to say on Buddha, and there's very little in the practices that contradict each other. So there's no serious conflict here. But if Alisin is still a practicing Satanist (that is, wasn't joking or exaggerating then, and hasn't given up since), then the two are about as spiritually misaligned as you can get. God and Satan, according to both sides' viewpoints, are actively at war. So that particular comic knocked R&R Reason #1 up several notches...

KingLeon · Post by **KingLeon** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 8:29 pm

Does Satan have a viewpoint?!
I mean, one that can be streched over more than one paragraph?

FlyingFish · Post by **FlyingFish** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 8:36 pm

On 2002-04-05 20:29, KingLeon wrote:
Does Satan have a viewpoint?!
I mean, one that can be streched over more than one paragraph?

I meant the viewpoints of the two faiths.

Brian in Japan · Post by **Brian in Japan** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 8:37 pm

Much to comment on--

First, Rikk is good for Alisin, and vice versa. They compliment each other, you know? I'm not at all convinced that he would have been good for Rumi.

Why?
Rumi had a *crush*. On someone so thick that he can't even see that. She should do a lot better than Rikk, but she first has to outgrow the shy hero worship.

Of course, T's gonna kill one or all of them sometime soon anyway, so the discussion will rapidly be moot.

As for Alisin/Stu, you're forgetting; we *know* where Alisin's nihilism comes from. People under a death sentence deserve a little leeway in the bitterness department, no? She's dealing with a lot of pain, on several levels. As for Stu--We don't know anything about his inner life, now do we?

It isn't so much that we have to like Alisin more, but we certainly undertand her a lot better, yeah?

GinaGina · Post by **GinaGina** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:33 pm

On 2002-04-05 20:24, FlyingFish wrote:

But if Alisin is still a practicing Satanist (that is, wasn't joking or exaggerating then, and hasn't given up since), then the two are about as spiritually misaligned as you can get. God and Satan, according to both sides' viewpoints, are actively at war. So that particular comic knocked R&R Reason #1 up several notches...

I have to interject.
Most Practicing Satanists (read: the type who go by LaVey's method) don't actually follow Satan per se. The name of Satanism was applied to LaVey's teachings by individuals who just thought that belief system was either evil or bad-ass (depending upon your argument)...

LaVeyan satanism is more a philosophy that views humans as no higher than any other animal, aside from the fact that humans are pretty high on the food chain. The idea of afterlife or souls or whatever is really a moot point with them, and the viewpoint is "live life by your own rules."

Sounds VERY Alisin, ne?

Ray Radlein · Post by **Ray Radlein** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:50 pm

On 2002-04-05 11:41, Red Viking wrote:
I was just wondering if I'm the only one who prefers the Rikk/Alisin pairing.

Rumy is absolutely my favorite character in Fans!.

That said, I am happy that Alisin and Rikk are together, and wish them long life and great joy. They are a great couple.

I think Rikk and Rumy would have worked out, if the two of them could ever have actually done anything to initiate a relationship with each other (face it; it Alisin hadn't bulldozed her way into Rikk's life, Rikk would still be Prufrocking around and Rumy would still be pining longingly anyhow).

Ray Radlein · Post by **Ray Radlein** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:55 pm

On 2002-04-05 20:29, KingLeon wrote:
Does Satan have a viewpoint?!
I mean, one that can be streched over more than one paragraph?

Sure: He wanted to be co-author of The Story, and didn't like it when he found out that he was going to be Just Another Character.

Okay, so that wasn't more than a paragraph; but Milton's version was a bit longer.

Bushipunk · Post by **Bushipunk** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:01 pm

A very long reply, because it's so nice to be posting in a thread that isn't about who's going to die and how...

I'm an affirmed Rikk/Alisin 'shipper myself. Have been since she first bound up his wounds during the original Thack storyline, actually.

In answer to Aris's question about the point of being an R/A 'shipper, seeing as their already together... Well, to begin with, we often see the couple as being rather set upon here on the boards, since the Rumy/Rikk 'shippers are (probably) more numerous, and (definitely) more vocal - matched, I think, in oposition to the relationship within the comic by Rikk's fellow fen, at least to begin with. Also, their relationship has been rocky enough that it never really seems like a sure thing.

As to why I, personally, am... I've posted on that before. I think Alisin and Rikk are good for each other, each bringing the other toward a happy medium. Rumy's crush on Rikk has always struck me as a bit childish (which isn't to say it doesn't break my heart the way she's pined for him, the poor girl), and in the end I have to think it says something that Rikk and Alisin's feelings are mutual and arrived at more or less independantly, whereas Rikk's never really thought of Rumy that way.

FlyingFish - I also identify with Rikk, and I have to addmit if I were him, I'd probably date Rumy sooner than Alisin. However, experience indicates I'd probably be wrong, and end up destroying a friendship for a relationship that would never work.
It can be a big mistake to assume that because two people are in many ways introverted and quiet, they actually have things in common...

Bushipunk

Ray Radlein · Post by **Ray Radlein** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:21 pm

On 2002-04-05 14:12, J. wrote:
Funny thing is, I like Alisin, but as I looked back over the archives, it struck me - how different is she from Stu, really? I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit, but when you compare the things they've both said, and the ways they act... what makes Alisin so much better?

The more I think about it, the less and less Alisin seems anything like Stu.

Have we ever seen her behave with outright malice towards anyone other than herself (obvious enemies, FIB agents, etc., aside)? The closest I can think is the fight with Rumy; and, frankly, there was plenty of blame to go around there. By the same token, she behaved wonderfully with Rumy at the Frat Party; arguably, she treated Rumy better than Rumy ("I want to deshtroy myself!") treated herself.

Sorry. I just don't see it.

FlyingFish · Post by **FlyingFish** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:09 pm

On 2002-04-05 20:37, Brian in Japan wrote:
Rumi had a *crush*. On someone so thick that he can't even see that. She should do a lot better than Rikk, but she first has to outgrow the shy hero worship.

I'm not buying that. You outgrow crushes, especially after prolonged contact with the person in question. Rumy's been interested in Rikk for a good year now, and except for summer vacation she's spent the entire time within a few miles of him.

SteveB · Post by **SteveB** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:36 pm

On 2002-04-05 20:24, FlyingFish wrote:

On 2002-04-05 12:02, SteveB wrote:
Take the Christian thing. Rikk seems to be a committed Christian. Rumiko seems more "spiritually aligned" with him than Alisin does. Alisin seems depraved and deliberately sinful, but Alisin's depravity (which she herself exaggerates, and therefore so does everyone else) is based on negating the Christian principles she was brought up with. I don't mean her specific background -- I mean she was born and raised in a primarily Judeo-Christian culture.
Well, yes and no. Buddha has nothing direct to say on Jesus, and Jesus has nothing direct to say on Buddha, and there's very little in the practices that contradict each other. So there's no serious conflict here.

It's not so much a conflict as a cultural incompatibility. Buddhism is ultimately about detachment and the eightfold path of moderation. Also, Rumiko is Japanese. She grew up in a completely different world than Rikk did.

I'm not saying that the products of two cultures can't come together, because of course they do every day. I'm saying that the pacifism and compassion Christianity and Buddhism share often mislead people into thinking they are similar. They are in fact as different as their parent religions, Judaism and Hinduism.

But if Alisin is still a practicing Satanist (that is, wasn't joking or exaggerating then, and hasn't given up since), then the two are about as spiritually misaligned as you can get. God and Satan, according to both sides' viewpoints, are actively at war.

Well, as you say, yes and no. My point was that Satanism is basically a reversal of Christianity. As first practiced in the Late Middle Ages/Early Rennaissance, it was primarily an instrument of social protest against the Church, and much of its ritual and circumstances were simply reversals or negations of Christian ones (upside down Crosses, prayers said backwards, etc.)

In many ways, something is closer to its opposite than it is to something unrelated. "Stop" and "Go" are closer to each other than either is to "Orange."

A Christian and someone who calls herself a Satanist because she has rejected God both have a similar set of reference points, they essentially believe the same sorts of things about the nature of the Universe, it's just that the latter has deliberately chosen the Dark Side (to borrow a phrase) because she feels cheated and betrayed by God.

I actually don't think Alisin is a practicing Satanist, if she ever was (she may, in fact, have been grandstanding). Rikk's love is leading her away from the dark side. And it's actually a very short trip. Once cured of her sickness -- and I'm not here referring so much to the disease that is killing her as to the spiritual sickness that disease helped bring about -- she will be much, much closer to Rikk's world view than Rumiko is.

That in itself does not mean they belong together, but it does mean that the surface similarity people see in Rikk and Rumy is just that: a surface similarity that belies a deep cultural gap they would soon discover were they to become lovers -- and again, that doesn't mean that Rikk & Rumy shouldn't be together, but simply that they aren't really as much alike as most folks believe.

Steve Bolhafner

[ This Message was edited by: SteveB on 2002-04-06 00:17 ]